Dan Navarra: I was on a career path that I was very proud of, that I had been very much encouraged of, and that was to pursue pastoral ministry. And so I did that for like 15 years, and then this small little thing called COVID happened. I don't know if you've heard of that, and COVID plays a really important role in my transition. 

Joe Miller: Dan Navarra. Welcome to Titans of Transition. 

Dan Navarra: I am so glad to be here. Thanks for having me, Joe. 

Joe Miller: I'm really glad you reached out. It's been a moment, or been a while, since we saw one another back in Danville at the church we both attended. 

Dan Navarra: Yeah, it's been well over a decade, I think, so good to see you. 

Joe Miller: Well, i'm really glad you reached out And after we had that initial conversation, i knew I wanted to have you on. I don't know what to call this podcast YouTube channel it's actually both, so I'll just call it a podcast. Most people know it Perfect, know it by that name. So, hey, listen, the whole focus of this is talking with folks about their transitions and what they did to successfully make a career or a life transition. So with that, let's just get right into it. What transition did you wanna tell us about today? 

Dan Navarra: Yeah, it was a good one. I, from the time I was about 18 years old, back when you knew me I mean this is a long time ago I was on a career path that I was very proud of, that I had been very much encouraged of, and that was to pursue pastoral ministry. And so I did that for like 15 years and then this small little thing called COVID happened. I don't know if you've heard of that, and COVID plays a really important role in my transition. but I have left Sunday morning pastoral ministry and I am now in a new adjacent career field. It's still ministry to me. It still functions in that role. I work for a nonprofit now called National Christian Foundation and I'm looking forward to sharing it about my story because I think it's a story that can help some people. 

Joe Miller: Oh, that's cool, and I haven't had anyone who's been made the transition from pastoral ministry into even adjacent or anything really on the podcast. I'm really looking forward to that, and you were, i think, initially in youth ministry. Is that correct? 

Dan Navarra: I did. I did A lot of people who start out in full-time ministry. It's kind of hard to jump into adult ministry right away, since you're barely an adult. I started when I was young, and so my entry point was youth ministry working with teenagers, and I was unapologetic about the fact that I saw that as a stepping stone in my career. I'm an Enneagram 3. And so, if your audience knows what an Enneagram 3 is, i'm an achiever, and so I very much had a career arc that I was anticipating And I set out as an 18-year-old to accomplish that arc, and so I jumped in with. 

Dan Navarra: The basic idea is start out as an intern, and so I was a part-time intern at the church. You and I actually went to together large church and it was part of a department of youth ministry, and while I was doing that I was going to school full-time, and so I, in four years, got my degree from Cal State East Bay in well, i got a degree in philosophy with a religious emphasis, and that was enough of a resume piece for me to make the jump from part-time intern into full-time pastor. And so, straight out of college, the spring of my senior year, i started interviewing at churches and had a job waiting for me when I graduated, and it was in Antioch, which you know is about half an hour from where you and I went to church, so a neighboring, adjacent community And that first pastoral job was a rousing success. I lasted all of 11 months, yeah, and so I don't know how many of your listeners have been at a job for less than a year and there's high turnover. But that was me. Part of that was budget-driven. The church had hired me and probably couldn't afford me, if we look back on that honestly, and so, with some other staffing changes, they just made a choice to let me go, and that was fine. That turned out to be a blessing to me. At that time I had started doing my master's work, and so I attended Fuller Theological Seminary. 

Dan Navarra: I pursued my master's of divinity, which my whole undergrad was 126 units of education, at Cal State, east Bay. My master's is 144. So it's bigger than a bachelor's degree, and I know there's master's degrees out there that are, you know, 10 or 12 classes. This was not that. This was 36 courses, and so I pursued my master's of divinity. I started full-time school while I was working at a local pizza shop And I was just trying to save money and gain some experience. And then I had a church in Modesto of the Central Valley of California call me and say, hey, we got your name from another church, would you consider interviewing? I said I'm not really interested actually, and they said, well, let us practice on you. So they hired me. After they decided to practice on me And I moved to Modesto in 2010 to be a full-time youth pastor and was continuing to pursue my education And in my denominational pool, the master's of divinity unlocks the key to what's called ordination, and ordination is the bridge, typically from a low-paying youth ministry job to a job that's considered a real associate pastor or senior pastor role. 

Dan Navarra: Those roles come with pension benefits, medical retirement, their salary minimums. The ordination track in the denomination that I'm from is a really good career path And I knew that, and so I was preparing to make those steps And during that season of preparation doing youth ministry and going to school I also met a beautiful girl who's now my wife And I shouldn't have said girl. She was a woman And we met at 25 or six years old And then we had a kid and bought a house and we're living the American dream And I realized that I was going to need to kind of have a deviation in my career path. And so I took a different youth ministry job at another town 15 or 20 minutes away And but it was a real step up job. This was a non-denominational church And so they saw it as an associate pastor role It was. 

Dan Navarra: I got a 25% raise the day I started, which was a huge deal for me and for my family better benefits, all those types of things And I really felt like I was pursuing my career. But I had kind of pressed pause. I'm making the jump from youth ministry to adult ministry But I communicated I can interrupt you a second, So go ahead. 

Joe Miller: When did you press pause? 

Dan Navarra: So the phrase that I still stick to to this day was I felt like in the Christian faith, we talk a lot about sacrifice. Jesus was the one who sacrificed for us, for our sins, and that mirrors the Old Testament system of sacrificing an animal on the altar for your sin right. And the altar A-L-T-A-R is this theological paradigm of sacrifice, and I felt like God was asking me to take my wife and child off of the altar of sacrifice and put my career on the altar of sacrifice, meaning functionally for people who aren't in the church world. I needed to de-emphasize my career growth and emphasize my and prioritize my family life. I had a young child and we were, very shortly thereafter, expecting twins, and so now I have three boys. They're well, shoot nine, six and six by the time this podcast comes out And, uh, i felt really clearly which is not popular in my industry to de-emphasize the ministry, because the ministry is the calling and working for the Lord, right. 

Dan Navarra: What could be a higher calling than working for the Lord? It's eternal, yes, exactly, the benefits are excellent. They go past death. But I still felt like God was saying no, hang on a second, pump the brakes. You need to care for your family well and not burn out. I chose to be obedient to that. I communicated that as I took this new job. This job had me out one night a week, which for a lot of youth pastors is rare. They're usually out two or three nights a week. Like I said, it came with some other responsibilities. I joined the adult teaching team at the church. I got to do a lot of really great things besides youth ministry. That, i think, was really good for my resume. 

Joe Miller: We just have to be there. Because, as you were talking about your career arc in the church, you went from the initial lower level I'll call lower level no negative thoughts towards pastors at all, but the typical path and then going to seminary, getting your MDiv, and then that unlocking the capability of going into the adult side, into the pastoral title within that denomination, then taking a church and this position that, in this non-denom church, enabled you to get more involved in on the adult side while still holding that other role. Right at the point where you were making that shift that you were looking to do all along as you were planning your career out. This is when you press pause to prioritize your family, not taking away from your love and your commitment to the church and toward your own personal ministry, but to get clarity around that. And making that was a tough choice because I think people who aren't close to the sort of occupational side of the ministry don't really understand how challenging on your time it can be. 

Joe Miller: I mean, it's almost like being an ER doctor but for the spiritual side and sometimes being available to go to minister in hospitals and that kind of role as well, but you're always on someone's speed dial and your loved ones at home get placed on the back burner. Now, some occupations have that, but I think they don't think about the church occupations having that as much. 

Dan Navarra: Yeah, no, the way I explained it to people is like I had a staff of two dozen. they're volunteers, but they were my staff and if you imagine your staff at a corporate environment, having your cell phone number and being friends with you and barbecuing with you, you have relationships beyond payroll, beyond your actual responsibilities, they become your community, right? Very few people work, eat, sleep, bathe, do their laundry, deal with their trash all in the same area, while you're raising kids together Well, that's the church. we do everything together, right? And so there's not a lot of boundaries on time, that's for sure. 

Joe Miller: Right, Boundaries right. 

Dan Navarra: So I'm moving forward in my career and getting ready to kind of, you know, got my job kind of kind of humming along. I called an autopilot in that season. I wasn't taking any new mountains, i was just doing what I felt like, you know, one step in front of another. And I heard it said before if you're not on the incline, you're either on the recline or the decline. And I was on the recline, but I was heading for decline in terms of my management and then COVID hit, And COVID was weird for the church industry, like it was for a lot of industries. 

Dan Navarra: Our church had never broadcast a service before and immediately we had to start doing that because, you know, churches shut down, especially in California, and I was the one of the younger people on staff and I had a computer that was capable, and so I started kind of getting pulled into production and broadcast And a lot of youth pastors. As I looked around at my colleagues, they're running through walls to spend time with teenagers when COVID hit And I was trying to keep the lights on at church. That was kind of my mentality. I was assisting in a lot of other things besides that, and so shortly after COVID hit, like a month or two later I went to my boss and I said, hey, i think it's time for us to make that transition. We knew about a few years ago where I was going to probably leave youth ministry completely and move into adult ministry completely. And I really like to do that here And I like to be a part of you know the solution to that And I like to help hire my replacement to set them up for success. And it took them a few months to kind of wrestle with that and digest and look at the budget with COVID happening, and you know, are we open, are we closed? All those types of things. And they came back to me a few months later, basically, and said We don't think there's going to be a spot for you here beyond your role doing youth ministry. We can't fund you doing adult ministry and add somebody else to do youth ministry again. And so we kind of came up with an exit strategy that made sense for both of us And I thought for sure, joe, that I was going to leave my role at my church and take another pastoral job at another city. And here's how sure me and my family were. 

Dan Navarra: We had actually taken all of our family photos off the wall of our house and done some. We had a realtor come through and look at our home and we did some touch up, paint and all those things that you do when you're getting ready to sell a house. We actually showed our house to two people before it was about to go on the market. This is December of 2020, when our home value was off the market just off the charts. We were like, man, we can sell our house right now and make a boatload, and neither one of the people that came through our house was looking, decided to buy it And the holidays were right around the corner. This is December of 2020. And so we decided okay, let's, let's wait till January and then we'll put the house on the market. In January. We had made plans to move in with my in laws because we didn't know where we were going yet. I was interviewing with some churches, but we didn't really know what was going to happen. We thought something was eminent and close. 

Dan Navarra: Now I want to pause my story there because my wife's story plays a role in my story And for anybody who's listening. And you think you're on your career journey by yourself. You're not, even if you'd feel like your role doesn't affect a lot of people around you, like work stays at work, that kind of mentality It, especially when you're married. I think the effect that that the trauma of transition has on your spouse and even your kids can be incredibly understated. So I want to speak to that for a second. 

Dan Navarra: Out here in California, we had this campaign from our governor called two weeks to flatten the curve, and so when COVID hit like March 15th or so of 2020, he came on, you know, television and the internet and said, hey, we're going to shut the world down for two, two weeks And without a flatten the curve of COVID. And so everybody stayed home for a couple weeks And we you know they closed schools and all that, and we thought maybe April 1st everything would go back to normal and COVID would be over. And so my wife and I, you know, thinking two weeks to flatten the curve and COVID would go away, we actually made the incredible choice to sign a lease for her side hustle business doing charcuterie and she she had a catering business. We signed a lease in week three of COVID for a downtown storefront to open a storefront for my wife's side hustle business that had just kept growing and growing and growing. So, three weeks into COVID, we decided to open a storefront. We hired an architect to do some tenant improvement, started paying on this lease and our plans went to the city. Long story short, they sat on our plans for nine months. So we got to December. My job came to an end December 4th of 2020. And they still hadn't approved our plans to open our storefront And we thought you know well, let's break our lease, we'll move, we'll start over somewhere else. 

Dan Navarra: So Christmas comes, new Year's comes, we're getting ready to put our house on the market like second or third week in January, and January 4th we get a call from the city that our plans had been approved, that everybody come back off Christmas off of furlough from COVID, and they'd approved our plans to do our tenant improvement. Within a week of that, we had an investor call us cold call us and offered to buy our business from us. Just a wild, wild week, right, yes, we had been open out of a commissary kitchen, but we hadn't opened our storefront yet, and so this investor saw it as an opportunity to buy low before we established a higher level of income. And so we got this offer to buy our business And my wife and I kind of looked at each other And one of the things that we'd been sensing in our own lives was we really fell in love with our city during COVID. 

Dan Navarra: Because COVID, one thing that COVID did was it takes all the crutches of social interaction away and you actually get to know your neighbors in our area And so we're out at the park, walking the sidewalks, you know, taking our kids on bike rides, and we're having these conversations with people and we're getting to know them And we just like develop these great friendships And we didn't want to leave those friendships And so I'm losing my job And my wife gets this offer to buy our business And I mean this is the apex of the story, right? We're like, okay, let's pivot, like everybody else did in COVID, and we decided to open our business. While the sale of our business is going through And dad becomes stay at home dad Instead of looking for a job. I actually was given the gift of staying home with my kids driving carpool, teaching them to read. I bought a little fishing boat. I mean, we, we put more miles on the family van that summer of 2021, then I could shake a stick at. My boys want to go to the beach, let's go. You want to go to the mountains, let's go. We did everything we could do together and it was an absolute gift, and I saw it that way. Here's here's where. Here's a piece of wisdom that I gained through that process. 

Dan Navarra: When I, when I love, when I lost my job, i I told myself I was going to spend an hour a day intentionally focusing on me. That was physical, it was mental, it was, for sure, spiritual. There's a there's a Christian component of this to me. I wanted to spend an hour a day with God, focusing on myself, kind of as a sabbatical in a sense, from the pressure of the go go, go, go, go go. I always say Sunday is always coming in the church world And so you know, there's no, there's no let up. And so I spent an hour a day. I got off social media, i quieted all the external voices in my life during that time and listen to some podcasts and read some books and open scripture and had time in prayer. 

Dan Navarra: And at the end of those 30 days I felt like one of my big takeaways was my sense of call or my, my singular purpose, that I was focused on, which was being a pastor. That you know I for as an achiever. I chased that title on my business card for years. I wanted to be that. That you know that I've arrived, adult pastor, and I felt like God and in my own time and my, my conversation with my family and my or my wife and mentors, i had that one purpose, that one calling unhook from my identity And instead I felt like and here's the phrase being faithful with whatever is in front of me whenever it's put in front of me. That was actually my calling for that season, my purpose for that season, and that was my kids. I got to coach Little League, i got to volunteer at their school, i mean, i got to do all kinds of things that I never thought I'd get to do. I got to be a good neighbor to my actual neighbors. 

Dan Navarra: Now my wife part of our sale agreement for this business was my wife was going to have a salary and benefits for our family And so she became the breadwinner. She left for work in the morning and I cooked breakfast, made lunches, all that kind of stuff. Totally, totally upside down family system for us. You know, for the first nine years of our marriage And we had a one year contract for her with the, with the sale of the business, to kind of see that sale go through and help shepherd the opening of the opening of the store and train up the new leaders And that business. That sale year was going to come. It came up July 30th of 2022, which is the year that we're recording the podcast in to the end of 2022 here. And as we got towards the end of 2021, after six or seven months of, you know, dating really hard, i knew I was going to have to figure out what my next big thing was going to be. And this is my transition, right, that's the podcast. 

Dan Navarra: And so I sat. The way this started was I asked myself, man, what does my resume on paper and my skill set lend itself to? And I have a theological degree and a philosophy degree And, in case you haven't noticed it, the philosophy factories they were shut down a long time ago. There's, there's, there's. It's not a readily hireable degree, right, and my experience is not in the corporate world or sales or whatever. And so I thought, man, what could I do with my skill set, my people skill set, my kind of ability to speak and understand the world of a nonprofit And I've always had a nose for dollars within nonprofits. 

Dan Navarra: I've been a part of more staff meetings than I care to mention where somebody had a great idea for their nonprofit and somebody had to tell them there ain't no money to do that. I kind of fundamentally reject that thesis. I kind of believe that there is the resources out there. It's a matter of connecting the resources to the projects. And so I said you know what? I think I could be a major donor officer. I think I could get into that philanthropy space and kind of help raise money for nonprofits. And so I was on a fishing trip with some men up in the mountains And we were sitting around a campfire as my dad and his friends and some family members, and I just got out of town to go fishing with some guys for a week, a long weekend, and we're sitting around the campfire and my dad's best friend is actually a former development officer for University of Pacific And we're sitting around the campfire having a Scotch and a cigar. I don't know if I can say that on the podcast. 

Joe Miller: You can say it of course, Yeah. 

Dan Navarra: I like Jesus and I like Scotch. That's fine. 

Dan Navarra: And so we're sitting around the campfire and I'm telling him about this pivot I'm thinking about in my life And he goes well, danny, because he knows me as Danny. He's known me that long since I was 10 years old And he says you know, i think you'd be great in that world And I'd love to help you, i'd love to mentor you a little bit, i'd love to be your a little bit of a guide or resource for you. And what a gift that was to have somebody who had been a question for you? 

Joe Miller: Yeah, did this interaction with him come before or after you had come to the use of revelation or the conclusion that you would? we're going to lean into this financial space. 

Dan Navarra: It. I honestly I think it was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. Yeah, it was. It was the thing that put a nail in the coffin for me of this other career that I thought was going to be my lifelong pursuit, which was pastoral ministry, And to have somebody close to me, who's known me for decades, look at me and say I think you could be really successful at this other thing. 

Joe Miller: So that was, that was enough. This was one moment right, it really was. It was a moment or whatever And it was on the front end, or was this idea kind of in your headspace yet about? Was it a confirmation of what you were thinking or was it sort of the beginning of it? 

Dan Navarra: It wasn't. It wasn't the spark. I'd had the idea before I sat around that campfire, but I didn't know where to. I didn't know where to start. And so for him to say I can help you start, like here's a book or two to read, here's, here's, he goes. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to make a list of the top 10 nonprofits that are within driving distance for you that aren't churches. So we have a grief house, we have, you know, salvation army, we have some drug rehab places, he goes. I want you to make a list of them and I want you to call their CEO or their development officer, if they have one, and I want you to ask them for an information, informational interview. Just ask, take them to lunch or coffee And say Hey, i'm looking at getting into your space, tell me about your day, what does your life look like, and by doing that, you're going to do some networking. Naturally, they're going to go. Oh, you're. I spent half an hour or 45 minutes with Dan Navarra And he seems sharp. I think he could be an asset to our team down the road when we have an opportunity. And you're going to grow, dan, by learning about what like what you can expect to be in that role, and so I did that. I started down this path. Of everybody I could get my hands on who is in the fundraising space In Stanislaus County, i asked them for lunch and had these meetings and it was really helpful. It was also confirming because a lot of those people knew me already just naturally from being I was employed at a nonprofit And through that whole process. 

Dan Navarra: Now here's where things get wild. My wife's business is going really well. It's been a crazy story already, but this is where it gets even more nuts. My wife's business is going really well and they're doing lunch service. Now, i mean, things are just screaming along. And my mom is out with some girlfriends in our neck of the woods doing a they call it. They have a grandma group, it's their Grammy group And the Grammy group. My mom decides to treat the women to lunch at my wife's store after one of their outings and they're sitting around there talking about their kids and their grandkids as you know, grammys do And my mom says, well, dan's looking at leaving pastoral ministry and going into philanthropy and fundraising And one of the women there says, oh well, you should have him call my husband. 

Dan Navarra: He's and you would know this name, joe, if I sold you the name because it's an old CPC name from our church days, but anyway. So I call her husband on Monday and he knows me as Danny, to same as my dad's best friend, and says Hey, i'm so glad you called. I've known you for 20 years, i know your family, i know who you are and what you're about. I think you'd be great in this space and I'd love to make some phone calls for you on your behalf to some CEOs and people organizations. I know I'm like this is the best phone call I've ever had on a Monday morning. It's like December 15th 2021. 

Dan Navarra: Okay, he says, well, hey, let's set up lunch in January, we'll do lunch in January And I'll get to know you again. Send me a resume and a cover letter and we'll talk in January. So we set up for lunch in January. A few days later he calls me back after I send him my resume and my cover letter. He says, danny, i know I told you I wasn't going to present you to any companies before you know we had lunch, but I happened to be on a call with Brian Feller of National Christian Foundation in California And, by the way he goes, i'm a volunteer halftime gift advisor for National Christian Foundation. You ever heard of it? I said, no, tell me more. He says well, i'm on a call with Brian Feller and we're looking for somebody in your territory who could work with our company And I think he'd be great at it. I said that's fantastic, vern, thanks. 

Joe Miller: Okay, so he got yeah, i mean just been here. So the reason why is probably people are listening to this or sensing the same thing, and that is for those who aren't close to the church or share our faith. they're going to look at this and say, oh, this feels like the law of attraction For those who are closer to us. they're going to think, oh, this looks like provision. Everything's being cleared out of the way and people are being presented into your life as you're leaning into where God has gifted you. 

Dan Navarra: Yes. 

Joe Miller: But I'd also. 

Dan Navarra: I had also taken steps. I'd also taken pragmatic steps. This was not blind faith. I had completely revamped my resume I mean a church resume. I had put together a really nice cover letter and I was prepared for that moment Because of some mentors that had said here's some things that you can do to position yourself, because when the conversation comes You have to be ready for it. And I and I was ready. I was ready to receive the ball that was thrown my direction. So Verne says I want to just tell you that before Christmas Sorry, that was the name of the gentleman who I called on that Monday He says let's, let's talk in January. I just want to give you some good news before Christmas. It's a great. So we keep our lunch appointment in January. I show up to lunch and there's another person from National Christian Foundation at the lunch. I didn't even know who's gonna be there. 

Dan Navarra: I was walking into an interview and Within a few months They had offered me a position with National Christian Foundation and Joe, i'm in my sweet spot. I love what I get to do and who I get to do it with. I feel like I'm fully alive in this new industry, in this new role that I have and It's been an absolute gift and it wasn't. It wasn't all sunshine and roses getting into it. The first question when we had lunch was about donor advice funds, and I'd never heard of a donor advice fund. That's not exactly how you want to go into an interview, and They walked with me through it and they've taught me what I need to learn technically so that I can do the job well, and Now I'm I'm enjoying my career more than I ever thought I would. It's been great for my family life balance. Yeah, i'm in a good spot. 

Joe Miller: Yeah, i have. I have this Theory that I've been sort of pounding in the last few episodes. You know other people say this too. It's not original, but When you get into your sweet spot, when you get into your, your area of gifting what God has given you to do, yeah, it can be intense, it can be super busy, but it's also very Energizing. You're not drained, and so you just said that, that you just it just brought that thought back to mind, that you know you're definitely hard after, but you just know it's confirmed. You know by how you feel, how you resonate with it. 

Dan Navarra: I I I've said to many people over the years. I think there's a group of people in the world that work nine to five so that they can live from five to nine, and Then there's a group of us that just get to live and when you're doing a job That is fulfilling and it's not a grind for you to want to get up in the morning and go do it, that allows you to live your life in other spaces And pushes you to be the best version of yourself, but it's pushing you in a way that is open-handed and inviting, rather than You will meet the quota or else you won't have a job. Right, there's two different voices of invitation into growth. I just get to live and You know we're doing a really important work with donors. We do a really important thing for our industry, which you know I use the phrase the kingdom of God. We serve a very specific target group of that audience and It's really important what we do and it's fulfilling and it's fun. 

Joe Miller: Yeah, so why don't you just take a few minutes and give us sort of the spiel? Yeah, when you, when you connect with someone and people probably have, you know, as you've described this to kind of an idea, a rough idea, where you're talking about donors and gifting, yeah, but give the context, because there are people out there who have resources, who are looking to be matched up with opportunities to give to that It's that serves what they want to do. So tell us. Tell us what you do and what the organization does. I give us a little bit more understanding for that. 

Dan Navarra: Yeah, sure. So the Bain crux of the idea is a lot of people have a financial strategy. Who are listening to this podcast. You have a CPA, you have a financial advisor. Your investment portfolio, your retirement, all that kind of stuff target a lot of people. Everybody should have those people in their life. A Lot of people have a financial advisor but they don't have a giving advisor. They don't have. They have a financial strategy, but they don't have a giving strategy. 

Dan Navarra: National Christian Foundation NCF we specialize in helping High capacity Christians figure out how to do tax smart giving strategies. We help them figure out what they're passionate about, what they want to give to, because a lot of people have been given a lot and our mindset is everything has been entrusted to us by God And so if we are not owners, we are stewards. How can we best steward what has been entrusted to us? and we help people do that practically and also Theologically. So the practical side of it is there are some incredible tax efficient tools out there That people don't know about to help them with their giving the. 

Dan Navarra: The principal product that we talk about is a donor advice fund. Some of your audience will know what that is, some of your audience won't. But a donor advice fund functions as a charitable checking account. So, like Joe, you have a savings account, you have a checking account, you do charitable giving, but you don't have a charitable checking account to do that giving. From that you fund the account And then you give from there. 

Dan Navarra: You probably just take from your checking account to do your charitable giving and a donor advice fund with National Christian Foundation Allows you to give the money to NCF. We're the 501c3 that gives you your charitable deduction receipt. So you get one charitable deduction receipt that you can download from your phone anytime you want, and then from that Pot of money that you give to us, you can advise grants to nonprofits all over the world and We send them a check the next day. It's very simple and easy. It's a streamlined process. It makes it convenient for people who support a lot of charities, makes it so that you have one charitable deduction receipt to itemize rather than having to go get nine, ten, twelve, fifteen different charities that you support. 

Dan Navarra: And puts it all in one spot. That's the simplest version of what we do, and what a donor advice fund really allows you to do Is it allows you to give appreciated assets beyond cash. So most people in the world do their charitable giving with cash. They go to the banquet dinner and they write a check for a thousand dollars. God bless them. 

Dan Navarra: Most people's wealth, your and mine included, is not in our checking account. It's in our investments. It's in our appreciated assets, whether it's a stock portfolio, some real estate property or even a business interest. A donor advice fund in National Christian Foundation actually has the tools and systems built with gift attorneys and and advisors and CPAs, to be able to gift an Appreciated asset stock, real estate property or even business interest. If you own a business that you started in your garage for $0 and now it's worth 10 million bucks, if you want to sell that business, you're gonna have massive capital gains on that and The donor advice fund allows you to give a percentage of that business or all of it, if you wanted to to charity before a potential sale a future potential sale and you get a fair market value deduction for the amount of Appreciated business that you give or whatever asset it is at the time of the gift and then when the thing liquidates, that percentage goes into your giving fund and you get to use do charitable giving with it and it optimizes your tax situation. 

Dan Navarra: Opt on your tax situation also Maximizes your gift potential to yes, because yes, that's awesome, that's really that's and it preserves liquidity from for what you were doing with your other cash on hand, because now you're giving from an asset rather than giving from your checking account. 

Joe Miller: That's, that's great. So what we will do is in the show notes We'll definitely put your contact information for anyone who happens to listen is interested in talking to you about this. Sure, if you could just give us sort of how people can reach you right now all day. 

Dan Navarra: NCF, so we're a national company. I work with the California chapter. So if you're in Florida listening to this, that's fine. We have folks in Florida who I could put you in touch with in a moment's notice. But you can email me at D Navarra That's D as in dog N a, v, a, r R a at N C, f giving comm, ncf, national Christian foundation giving comm. And If you drop me an email, if you're in California I'll chat with you, and if you're not, i'll put you in touch with somebody right away. Here's the deal. We're not like a lot of other financial institutions. We're a ministry, we're a nonprofit, and so our time doesn't have an hourly rate attached to it. We would love to just talk with you through your giving strategy. If you're just interested in a conversation with somebody, you go. Oh, i've never thought about a donor advice fund before. I've never even heard of that. Tell me more happy to do that on a zoom call anytime. 

Joe Miller: It's great, dan, thanks a lot, and I will put those specific addresses in the in the show notes as well, everyone, so they make it easy for you to copy and paste that in. so, dan, let's talk. Let's do a sort of a wrap-up section here. So if you look over those transitions and you've had some while transitions- Yeah, it's fun. It's really fun to talk about. But as you look back over those, you had some moments. But what? what for you? What do you think were lessons learned that others may benefit from hearing? 

Dan Navarra: so a Couple come to mind immediately. the first one is the removal of noise from my life allowed me to do the soul work and the mental work, both internally and with my spouse, to pull the trigger on a transition, and my really my transition is to transitions. I transitioned into being a full-time Stay-at-home dad and then I changed careers. I had to wrestle with my identity, from going from always chasing the title on a business card to not having a business card and so, yeah, the the removal of external voices And choosing what voices I wanted in my life. I didn't turn off Mentors, which is my second kind of piece of advice. I started immediately Asking people that I trusted from over the last 10 or 20 years Hey, i'm looking for input, i'm looking for you to listen on my behalf and help, shepherd me, i'm. 

Dan Navarra: I think a lot of people are too proud to ask for help when they're in transition. It's like when you're drowning. it takes people. I was a lifeguard for a long time. people are very hesitant to yell for help when they're drowning. They try to figure it out and try. they exhaust themselves trying to save themselves And usually it's too late by the time they're saying help. People have a hard time saying, hey, i need others. 

Dan Navarra: And so I think a second piece is no, don't go it alone. There's an old African proverb that says alone we go fast, but together we go far, and I believe in that wholeheartedly. There's a scripture that says that same kind of thing, in Ecclesiastes, where it says three strands of rope aren't easily broken. One strand rope is broken. And so who can you intertwine yourself with? 

Dan Navarra: What three strands of rope? two people that you can have in your life that can speak honestly to you and coach you when you you know that you can invite to give unsolicited feedback We don't live in a culture that receives feedback very well, and when you're in transition, a mentor of mine once said whenever there's change, there's trauma, and so being able to accept the trauma and have people care for you through that trauma, speak hard things to you, through that change in transition, i think it's why I'm still here and why I've come out on the other side in a better spot. And I realize not everybody's story has a good ending to it, like mine does, but it didn't always seem like it was gonna have that ending. 

Joe Miller: Yeah, it doesn't, and that's awesome. So it was like quiet, the noise and the other voice. And the other point was, and that was part of your soul work. So you were listening, you were leaning in intentionally to the voice you wanted to hear. And then you were asking for help and not feeling weird about asking for help. 

Dan Navarra: Yeah, when I say turn off the external voices, I don't mean other people Like I'm talking about the soul community and stuff. 

Dan Navarra: Yeah, i logged off for 30 days and it was huge for me. Yeah, cause you're not dealing with the political this, that and the other thing And I can get caught up on everybody else's pictures and vacations. At the end of that And then, you know, my TV consumption all that tended to shift. I had some healthier rhythms in that season where I was intentionally trying to care for myself physically, mentally, spiritually. You know, i went for walks with no headphones in. 

Joe Miller: I went things like that I think you did The other thing. I'm practical if you just get deplete or sort of on that hamster wheel constant. 

Dan Navarra: Oh yeah. 

Joe Miller: And it's weird. I mean, we're so driven by habit and and and our schedules that you know we consume more time than we're aware of in TV, social media, whatever it would be, in this very thin and non-fulfilling space. And so if you need to do deep work like this, you need to get focused, you need to be intentional about investing. You talk about investing yourself, but it's investing in yourself in the sense of opening up a space to have that deeper dialogue. 

Dan Navarra: Yes, yes, creating space was a huge piece of this. 

Joe Miller: Yeah, yeah. So that's awesome, dan. I just thank you so much for for bringing these transition stories And I think it's going to resonate with with many. You don't have to be. It was very general, it's. It's not that you'd have to be. It's sort of in the Christian career space. These are are universal truths. I think that would serve anyone well And again, thank you so much for coming on. Types of transition Is there any closing thoughts you have that you want to put down? 

Dan Navarra: I think yeah, I'm glad you asked. I think my closing thought is actually for people who would say, hey, you know, I I believe in God, but maybe they haven't been walking with God in a way. That is, you know, I was coming from a pastoral background, So every day I'm doing spiritual things. You can use your transition as an opportunity to focus on the main thing being the main thing, the main, you know, keeping the main thing And it might be an opportunity for you to return to a faith route that maybe was more present in your life at a different season. I talked about doing that internal work. I mean, frankly, it was spiritual work mostly. It was me doing business with God and feeling like God was giving me some release, And so you may feel like that is exclusive to pastors, but I would say it's not And you can intentionally pursue that easily. You're also welcome to email me about that. I'd be happy to talk to anybody about that if they want a little coaching in that regard. So that's it for me, Joe. Thanks. 

Joe Miller: That's great. That's great. Listen, thanks a lot And again put all this information in the show notes. Please do reach out to Dan if you have any questions, regardless of the sphere, but I can tell you from the heart he is there for you. So thanks again for joining us on Titans of Transition. Hey, thanks for joining me today on Titans of Transition. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please check the show notes for additional information.