[00:00:00] Nicole Calhoun: I Get the question a lot, Joe, of how do you know what your next step is? What to do next? And I, I tell people to pick something and try it. Something of interest. It's not going to be a waste of time. Now I'm not saying go out and quit your day job and do something extreme. I'm saying, you know, you can volunteer for different things, uh, just to see if you, if you would like doing, uh, that function or whatnot, but it's never a waste of time because you're going to learn something and you're going to develop some skills and you're going to make some connections that's going to benefit you.

Somewhere in the future, nothing that I've ever done, Joe has been a waste of time. It's been a stepping stone for, for where I am now. And then the other side of that Joe is sometimes because we've had experiences where, Oh, I'm going to try my hand at this. Cause I've tried my hand at a number of things and not just within my career, outside of my career, entrepreneurial minded.

And when I think about it, it's just hilarious. Uh, but as you are trying to figure out what that thing is for you, What that, that next move is for you. Sometimes you try this, you try that and, and you start to feel like, well, people are watching and thinking, I have no clue what I'm doing. And really, and I know I've talked to so many people that have tried this and this didn't work out and I know people have this opinion and I had to let that go.

I had to let it completely let it go. Because again, it goes back to, there's something I've learned in it. Joe, I sold, uh, Transcribed Children's, uh, party supplies. Wow. 

[00:01:33] Joe Miller: Yeah. Yeah. That's on your list of things you've done. That's on your list of things you've done that you can bring up in a meeting. You can say, need someone to sell party supplies?

I'm your person, , 

[00:01:44] Nicole Calhoun: but you know, now I know, know there's different things that I know how to do. I know how to, you know, get products made and, and things like that. And, you know, skills that I can use elsewhere. I now, I am not trying to go and find party supplies for anymore, but there are things that I've learned from that experience, you know, and so, um, that's why I say none of it's wasted. 

[00:02:08] Joe Miller: Really happy to have Nicole Calhoun with me today on Titans of Transition. Nicole and I met on the John team and as we were serving together in that organization, we got to know each other a little bit more and Turned out we had a similar background and I've been wanting to ask Nicole to come the podcast because I think she has some, great insights that she can share with 

Those are feel a little bit stuck. So, Nicole, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:36] Nicole Calhoun: Thank you, Joe. Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this conversation and to, uh, be here.

[00:02:41] Joe Miller: this was a volunteer kind of position that we were in, um, helping pull together data from the very large C. Maxwell leadership training since we both have a background in I. T. we volunteered, but we kind of got enlisted into these different roles of helping to serve.

And, uh, it was great getting to know you then. And what I didn't know, of course, I knew as part of John Maxwell organization that you are also trained and certified as a coach, trainer, and speaker. But I didn't know you were doing so much speaking. Can you, can you talk to us a little bit about 

 the speaking engagements. I've seen your postings on LinkedIn in particular. Tell us a that.

[00:03:19] Nicole Calhoun: Well, yeah. Uh, so as you know, Joe, we kind of talked a little bit about my passion, uh, for career advancement, uh, with women in STEM. And so, uh, as part of the John Maxwell community, I've gotten connected with different People who have a similar passion to mine and, uh, one of which is the empowering women industry.

And so I'm very closely connected with them and I've been very much involved with for probably the past five years. And so you'll see me pop up here and they're speaking with women, not just in technology, but women in other fields where there's not as many women within those fields.

So you have women in construction. Uh, women in welding, uh, in, in just different areas that, uh, we're not traditionally expected to be within those different fields. So, uh, those are some of the things that I'm really closely connected to. And then there's some other, uh, speaking engagements I've done in the space because of my background in and it's more so, um.

Centered around my story and my passion for career advancement, professional development, you know, those areas where we want to move forward in our careers and professionally, but we don't know exactly what it is that we need to do to get there. And so a lot of my speaking engagements are, um. Booked by organizations that have an audience, uh, that are in that area where they, they feel like, well, I know that there's more for me to do.

I just don't know how to move forward. And I, I totally enjoy doing this, Joe. I really do.

[00:04:52] Joe Miller: It's just interesting because, uh, I think like you, I, well, I don't want to presume, but for me, um, I came to get very interested in coaching probably 20 years ago, at least 20 years ago, after I had my own coach that really helped me professionally um, uh, my desire to help others, through those kinds of periods of time where they lacked clarity or just felt a little stuck.

And, and just before we pressed record, we were chatting about that and there is quite a few people who do get into that situation where for one reason or another, they feel there's just something missing or they feel stuck. And it sounds to me like a lot of your engagements, both speaking, and I assume coaching as well as kind of in that space.

[00:05:36] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah, so it really, like you said, it was born out of your, your experience, uh, having been coached. Mine was born out of my experience to develop myself personally. We, you know, you mentioned that my background is in technology, so I spent Uh, 20 years as a software, uh, engineer, software developer, uh, you know, the, the titles change over time.

I was a computer programmer. It was one time, but it's all the same thing. Uh, but I spent 20 years doing that. And, uh, but even prior to that, I knew that there was. always something more for me to do, but I don't know if it was that 20 year mark or I'm not sure what it was, but I started feeling, you know, it's time for me to kind of take those skills that I have, that I've cultivated in that role as a developer, a software engineer, and to see what else I can do with that.

Uh, discovering that I had transferable skills that I could use in, in, uh, different areas, uh, for different roles and deciding to take this. Professional development journey, and it was on that journey that I realized that, uh, well, one other people started noticing the transformation in me and. They, you mentioned, I can't remember if it was prior to hit recording, if you mentioned Toastmasters or now, but, you know, getting involved in Toastmasters to improve my communication skills and things like that, because I was very techie and I spoke very techie and people didn't necessarily understand what I said all the time.

Uh, but working on that professional development and then starting to help other people. work to develop themselves in that way as well and watching them grow and, and advance themselves in their careers, experiencing promotions and trans job transitions and things like that. I realized I really enjoyed seeing that transformation and being a part of it and knowing that I had some type of role in that.

And really that's like you, that that's how that passion, um, uh, was birthed in me.

[00:07:38] Joe Miller: Yeah, I think that's really, that's, I resonate with that a lot and it is a journey. Um, and now you have a role, a VP level role, I believe in, in learning and development and it's really interesting. Uh, so I think. The importance of that to career is so huge, almost regardless of what your career is. I mean, it's the relationship.

I mean, it's not like we were sitting off on a missile silo, probably bad example, waiting for someone to the order 

[00:08:06] Track 1: to fire a missile 

[00:08:08] Joe Miller: or something crazy 

[00:08:09] Track 1: or we're isolated 

[00:08:10] Joe Miller: and alone. Let's think of another example where you're just

[00:08:13] Nicole Calhoun: Okay.

[00:08:14] Track 1: or something.

[00:08:15] Nicole Calhoun: better.

[00:08:15] Track 1: think that's probably 

[00:08:16] Joe Miller: a lot better. Um, the outtakes. So you're working on a or something like that. You're just creative and it's just for yourself and you don't have to worry about it. But in the modern era, most of careers have huge component that requires interacting with other living human beings. 

[00:08:32] Track 1: And 

[00:08:33] Joe Miller: in technology, especially in the early days, You're valued primarily for your technical contribution, and you're kind of off the side a little 

[00:08:41] Track 1: bit, 

[00:08:41] Joe Miller: as to grow in your career, and you're not sure what moves to make, I often I coach saying, well, tell me about your relationship with your boss, or tell me about the relationship with your internal customers and. I tend to get stares, blank stares back, and I think that is totally on the developmental path. really isn't something that you get taught, you know, as you're learning technical skills. There's some of it comes in when you're doing business analysis and things like that, you need to know how to people and gather requirements, but it's still kind of sterile in a way. And, 

[00:09:16] Track 1: um, 

[00:09:17] Joe Miller: Yeah, that's where the big growth areas I think really are. So me, um, I came into the whole technology space from, from, from the laboratory as a scientist, as, as a user of a 

[00:09:29] Track 1: particular application 

[00:09:30] Joe Miller: and then shifted into it, not so much from programming. I was dangerous in programming. I was, 

[00:09:36] Track 1: this is back in Fortran 

[00:09:38] Joe Miller: And I was do to this particular I don't 

[00:09:41] Track 1: understand it. Um, 

[00:09:43] Joe Miller: I dangerous. So that it was good for me to get away from that. Um, however, what I found was that really it was being able to influence others, you know, and being able to understand what their requirements were and deliver solutions for them.

But you had to listen, but sometimes you had to influence that ties into John Maxwell's. statement leadership, not influence, nothing more, nothing less. And 

[00:10:07] Track 1: seems like such a, 

[00:10:08] Joe Miller: you know, thing to say, but it's so true. Don't you think?

[00:10:12] Nicole Calhoun: Oh, yeah, definitely. When you, I mean, if you think about the further you go into your career and the more responsibility that you have in, in your career, much of what we get done is through people. Yeah. And if you can't influence people, then you're going to have a hard time gaining buy in. You're going to have a hard time, right?

You're going to have a hard time with change management. You're going to have a hard time in so many different areas if you don't have that influence with people, we, we're not on islands. We can't accomplish anything by ourselves. We, everything that we do within, I don't care what your role is, it's going to require some type of connection, collaboration with people.

And that influence is a big part of, uh, uh, that's one of the skills and, and, uh, I don't know, a core competency, whatever you want to call it, that is really important to anybody's career, regardless of what it is that you do. Um, and like you mentioned, um, within technology, the push has always been to make sure your skills, you're up to date on your tech, your technical skills.

Uh, it's not that those soft skills are not valued, they're just not. emphasize as far as, uh, developmental areas.

[00:11:31] Joe Miller: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really true. Now, one of the, um, organizations that I think you've, you've spoken or you're involved with was STEM, right? 

[00:11:40] Track 1: Can you talk 

[00:11:40] Joe Miller: a bit about that? Cause I thought that was really And some people may

that organization is. So if you wouldn't mind.

[00:11:46] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. So STEM is really not an organization. It's really a classification of different roles, uh, that where we see there is a population, uh, that is underrepresented. And so STEM stands for science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. And these are jobs and roles where you don't see, uh, uh, much. It's a low population of women.

And also minorities. And so there's been a focus in, I would say, a real push in the last 10 years to start at the, the elementary level, you know, in the school, the elementary level of schooling to educate on these different, uh, jobs and roles and opportunities, um, for young people to gain that interest.

Uh, people do what they see other people do. We are more likely to say, I wanna be a teacher. If all we see is teachers, I wanna be a doctor. If all we see are doctors, if we begin to see scientists, uh, that look like us, if we begin to see technologists and, and those other areas, and then we will have more, more of a population of, uh, more grounded.

population of people in, in those roles. And so I am really. involved in a way where I work a lot with, I don't, by the way, I don't do as much coaching as I used to. I'll say that because of my, you know, my role that you mentioned earlier. And so I, I, I still do speaking, but I don't do as much coaching as I used to, but my focus in my speaking and my coaching was really on, Because if I can help the next person, the next person that looks like me, and particularly it's women that, that, uh, really they, they, they're more drawn to me, you know, not that I'm not drawn to them, but they kind of find me because of my story, because of my background, because they've heard my struggles of advancement.

Because they've heard me say, this is how I was able to, to, to get where I am, or these were some missing parts that I didn't know I was missing. Right? And so, um, that area of STEM is really something that is a passion for me. Because again, when you show up in these areas, um, when, when I was in technology, it.

I would be the only person on my team that looked like me. And so if I can help the next, uh, next person feel confident in their skills and what they do and what they bring to the table and in advancing in their roles, then I want to do that. I want to be a part of that. That, that is something that I absolutely love doing.

[00:14:30] Joe Miller: But that's really, uh, I think great. And it's interesting cause I, one of the things I know I'm retired, but one of the things I do on the side I facilitate a couple of professional IT leadership groups, one at the CIO level on another one at the director level. And. Uh, we started doing some breakout meetings, uh, most of them are remote meetings for women 

[00:14:52] Track 1: because. in those 

[00:14:53] Joe Miller: organizations, even in this sort of representative collection of leaders, there's a low percentage of women. And, and, 

[00:15:01] Track 1: um, 

[00:15:02] Joe Miller: of 

[00:15:02] Track 1: the, 

[00:15:02] Joe Miller: one of the key issues I think is just what we're talking about is how, how do you get more representation? How do we get more, um, support for women? Advancing.

What are the issues that the guys don't want to talk about? Right? I mean, what are those key things? And I've been starting to invite folks in and may have to invite you in for a special call. Um,

[00:15:25] Nicole Calhoun: Oh, I would love that.

[00:15:27] Joe Miller: uh, leaders to, to speak to these very specific issues and real challenges. And there under representation there.

And that's, that's totally for sure. uh, I have to say at some of the, Best bosses I've had in my career are women. 

[00:15:42] Track 1: Bar none.

[00:15:42] Nicole Calhoun: You know, yeah, and you know, I, what I find is, it is that when you think about mentorship, right? Um, if my, if all of my manager, if managers or my bosses, There's nothing wrong with that, but I find that like people go off to lunch together, they spend more time together and there's that natural mentoring of relationship partnership that occurs where you're learning these things that you need for your role and to advance.

And when that opportunity is not there, or, I mean, The opportunity has to be, uh, intentional. Right? It's because it's not a natural relationship. And so, while women are very capable, I mean, we run households. Not to say men don't. Men do that too. You know, we all do it. Right? We are all capable of doing it.

But there are things that I feel like have been missing that we didn't know. And having those types of, uh, partnerships, those mentorships, um, opportunities, I feel have been key. for others. And so right now, um, part of what I do, I feel like I am a mentor to other women. I try to mentor at least not just coach, but mentor other, at least one or two women at a time, right.

At a given time. And that's because there's just things that, that we have not been information we haven't been privy to. And it's not that it's been hidden. It's just, it has not been a natural occurrence. 

[00:17:18] Joe Miller: this is, I good point to maybe pivot and about your journey bit more. You hinted at a few minutes ago talking about Lessons that you had learned and, and, you know, the way you, you answer those questions other women and to others. So, can we do that? Can we talk about your, your, your journey?

And, you know, you, you,

[00:17:39] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah.

[00:17:40] Joe Miller: about starting out as a programmer, programmer analyst, and then, programmer analyst became software engineer, but it's really

[00:17:46] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:17:50] Joe Miller: I, you dropped a few, few words in here that I suspect are gonna be important, like in intentionality or being intentional those kinds of things.

So tell us a little bit about your journey and how you, you got to. success that you're in right now,

[00:18:04] Nicole Calhoun: so, uh, as a, uh, again, at one point in my, uh, career as a software engineer, I, you know, I decided that I wanted to expound on my skills, expand my skills rather, and, um, see what else I can do, what else I was capable of. Uh, But I kind of stay within technology, even though I wasn't developing anymore. I moved into project management.

I wanted to take, again, those, uh, transferable skills and use them in those areas, and you kind of mentioned, you know, when you're doing analysis and, and, and things like that, and there were some roles I was in where we didn't have, uh, VA's, and we didn't have, we didn't have PM's, so we had to fill it in the blank to do some of these things, and it was a good thing for me because it, you know, It kind of opened the door for me to go into project management.

So entering into project management. Uh, I was, I don't wanna say forced, but I had to develop, uh, emotional intelligence, right? There are some things that are natural to us, but there are some things that speak self-awareness, right? Relationship management, social awareness, all these different things that, uh, me as a developer working in my small team, I may not have had to develop, but as a project manager.

I had to have conversations with people that were my peers and I had to have conversations with people that were well above my peers. And I, and I had to be, I was responsible to delivering the project and, and, and to communicating what was going on. And so that kind of pushed me into, um. Uh, developing these different leadership skills and, and learning,

[00:19:54] Joe Miller: if interrupt you a second, such a great example, because those who may not be familiar with what project managers have to do, at least inside of Information technology. You don't have people reporting directly to you in these kinds of roles. you to be able to influence people.

Not only do you have to know what's going on and with a myriad of different tasks the same time, and track who's supposed to be doing what and what the timescale is, and manage all that, all that. Very analytical things. But at the same you have to go and convince people to stay on the, on the, with their commitments they've made.

And, 

[00:20:29] Track 1: and you're 

[00:20:29] Joe Miller: right. They're all throughout the, not even within IT, they're all throughout the business and all up and down the management chain. So it a tough. Great example of how leadership really is influence. if you

been in a, a, a job is delivering against a specification, you still had to do, like you said, BA business analysis.

You still had to talk to your end customers to a certain level, but there's a difference between saying, what do you want and. This is what you committed to. going to get it there on time?

difference there. What a great example.

[00:21:04] Nicole Calhoun: And why can't we get it there on time?

[00:21:06] Track 1: Oh

[00:21:08] Nicole Calhoun: You know, it, but you, There are so many, as you're talking about that, that was a lesson on influence for me that I had to find ways to connect with people, you know, we talk about common ground and, and, and, you know, that there's different, uh, we have different backgrounds, right?

We have different experiences. And so trying to find that avenue to be able to connect. and to build relationships, because if I didn't build these relationships, I wouldn't be able to influence these people. I could name drop, but that only gets you so far. You know, you, there is an element of gaining trust.

All of these things. That were the soft skills, right? That that's not learned in, uh, keeping up with your technical skills. So, I had to learn how to do all these things just to get my job done just to get my job done. And then they had conflicting commitments, competing commitments, right?

[00:22:08] Track 1: On

[00:22:09] Nicole Calhoun: The people that you work with on these project teams, they're on other projects.

And how do I convince them that, can you put your time on this thing right now?

[00:22:21] Track 1: Yeah. And sometimes you have 

[00:22:22] Joe Miller: to then out to the other parties who have their time committed and to work out It's, it's a very multifaceted and it's interesting when you stepped into that. Was it sort of, were you thrown into the deep end or did you have mentors to work with you the process?

It was pretty much Go for it. Nicole

[00:22:42] Nicole Calhoun: you know, it's funny because I, I was speaking to someone recently and I said, once you get to a certain level, you just kind of, you have to figure it out. Yeah. And so while I didn't have, uh, official mentors, Uh, I did have one or two people who helped me to understand how to do this within the org that we were in, right?

Because it looks different everywhere you go. Uh, but I, I was very much thrown into the deep end. And although we don't like being thrown out there, there's a lot that we can, we can learn. You know, I tell people it was either, sink or swim. And I didn't want to sink,

[00:23:23] Track 1: Right.

[00:23:23] Nicole Calhoun: so I had to swim. But there's a lot that I've learned and a lot that I am capable of doing now that I wasn't capable of before.

Because as a developer, at the time, now I know we're in an agile world now, and keep in mind I was a mainframe programmer, okay?

[00:23:39] Joe Miller: very agile.

[00:23:40] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah, yeah, so now that we're in the agile world, you're more, you're You are facing more of your stakeholders, more of the senior leaders, but in the world that I was in, I kind of hid behind, uh, people and, and even my end users that I interacted with, uh, they were not at the senior level.

And so coming. Coming out of that role into project management, I, I had to toughen up. I had to learn. Some of it was learning on the job. Some of it was through what I talked to you about, just the professional development courses and training that I, that I took on. Uh, but even in that, you know, you asked me about my journey, even in that, I was stuck for a long time where I felt like I couldn't get to the next level.

[00:24:24] Joe Miller: What did you do?

[00:24:25] Nicole Calhoun: And, uh, what did I do? I, well, I, I, I continued to push forward. Uh, I continued to grow myself. At the same time, I challenged myself in other areas to say, okay, you know, Nicole, I, and I did move out of project management. I moved out of project management and started working more in the IT risk area. It was still managing.

I was still managing things. Uh, but it wasn't project management in the traditional sense. So I did that for a couple of years. Um, but eventually what I did, And I think this is really going to be key for me. There is a talk that I do. It's called, um, being uniquely you, the courage to be uniquely you. I took a step back and I realized, I asked myself, Nicole, what is hindering you?

What is keeping you from moving forward? I can't point the finger at anyone else and say, I mean, to some degree, there are some limitations that we have within the workplace, but what can I do to push myself forward? So some of the things that I noticed was I was not showing up completely as myself, meaning because I had a perception of what I should be in the workplace.

I didn't offer up the skills, skills that I had that I was very much capable of.

[00:25:45] Track 1: Mm-Hmm.

[00:25:46] Nicole Calhoun: Excuse me. So I had to, I had to kind of peel that back and deal with that. Uh, I also had to learn how to toot my own horn. I, I was in, uh, a mindset that I've been, I've grown up to be and, and, um, been taught to be humble and meek and things like that.

But in that, I understood that to me, never talk about the good that you do, your accomplishments and things like that. And I had to, Go back and relearn some things that, you know, if, if I, if I do something wonderful, or if I run a marathon, I don't care where I come in at, but if I run a marathon, I'm going to talk about it and I'm going to be excited about it.

And basically I'm tooting my own horn, but I'm not being prideful. And so I have to learn how to communicate my value. Right? And own that. And so that was one of the things that I did. And I also had to understand what I brought to the table. And stop diminishing, uh, my capabilities. Stop assuming that everyone can do what I can do.

Stop assuming that, that, oh, it's, it's, what I'm doing is small. It's not a big deal. I, I had to, within myself, uh, recognize. That I am bringing something significant to the table. That whole mime shift Uh, it, it, I think that was one of the key things that helped me to end up going to the next level. And, and so going to the next level for me was when I said, you know what, Nicole, um, you know that this is your passion.

So why not start doing that full time? And that's actually when I went to the next level when I owned all that and I owned it within my passion. That career advancement, professional development, helping people advance themselves. That's when I was able to elevate to the next level.

[00:27:39] Joe Miller: that last comment about passion, and we've heard a lot about, you know, career advice, talking about getting in touch with your passion. And I do think it's element. I like to visualize like a Venn diagram that passion is of those circles, you your I would use the word gifting 

[00:27:55] Track 1: your,

[00:27:56] Nicole Calhoun: Oh yeah.

[00:27:57] Joe Miller: abilities, you can learn skills and you can be proficient in skills.

But I find that the things that come more naturally to you, give you energy. light you up.

[00:28:06] Nicole Calhoun: Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:09] Joe Miller: you're starting get some place, you've started to get clarity and identified a bit of a sweet spot. Of course, there's the practical things too, like, can I make any money at this and 

bubble or circle that looked at. But, um, yeah, I think that's that point you made about humility, though, if we can go back to that, just a second, we have I think, in our, our, in our, Cultural upbringing. Some of us have that mistaken and you, you kind of underlined that mistaken concept that humble means not, not being truthful about what your capabilities are.

I the idea is, you don't to get too puffed up and beyond what's same estimate of your abilities. You know,

[00:28:50] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:53] Track 1: support myself?

That's another 

[00:28:54] Joe Miller: there in a generous way, like, I can help with that. And you 

[00:28:58] Track 1: offer it 

[00:28:59] Joe Miller: and then that really benefits the organization. If you're being authentic, or if you're trying to yourself up either out of, uh, your own expanded view of yourself 

[00:29:13] Track 1: out of 

[00:29:14] Joe Miller: insecurity, cause that happens too, people tried to get accepted by kind of overselling their skills at times or their abilities. think that's a huge, that was a big aha moment.

I think for you, realized I'm really a lot back here. 

[00:29:31] Track 1: Yeah, that's

[00:29:32] Nicole Calhoun: It was. And Joe, I have to say it was hard. It took some getting used to, and I had to be able to, um, talk about my accomplishments and my, my skills and my talents, my abilities in the way that was comfortable for me. And so when I talk to other people that, that, where this has been something that's kind of held them back.

I tell them it has, you have to be comfortable with it. You have to be able to do it in a way that's comfortable for you. For me, I tell it in a story format. I talk about it in a star stories. I use that, right? A story format. Uh, but until you're comfortable with doing it, it's always going to feel awkward.

 What I'm talking about. Uh, it didn't all happen at once. It didn't all happen in a year. Yeah. Yeah. Even, even, uh, uh, understanding that I had to bring my full self to the table.

Uh, it didn't all happen at once. And so I'm saying that to say that, You know, when you find, when you hear people's success story, for some reason, we believe that it just, in one moment, they weren't successful. The next moment, they were. And it's really not, not like that. It's like an onion. You start peeling back layers and realizing, wait, this area is hindering me.

The way I'm thinking in this area is hindering me. And what am I going to do about it? So it wasn't instant, you know, and I'm hoping that the listeners will understand that, that it, it, it's very much normal to reach a certain point. I feel like you're getting nowhere, but you are, and then realize there's something else you need to work on.

It's a very, Yeah,

[00:31:21] Joe Miller: it's a good thing because with each of these kind of revelations that you might have, there's a bit of risk. And so it gives you the capability. There's a couple of things I think of, it gives you the capability of taking small incremental risks. And you're going in the right direction. so that's really should be comforting. Um, other, the other thing is that we're not particularly good at having the long view 

[00:31:48] Track 1: in mind, you know, 

[00:31:50] Joe Miller: I, I to use analogy and kind of overused this in this podcast, but of climbing mountains, you know, if you've ever done that or climbed. shoulders. I, you I live in Colorado, you take offense of people having these small hills and calling them mountains, but you can't see the summit. You might think you have that kind long range view know where you're headed, or you have the ultimate solution. But often learning journey you know, summiting all these shoulder peaks then you are and replotting your course and going forward from there.

So it should be encouraging to think. I like peeling the onion though. I'm going to use that for sure

[00:32:30] Nicole Calhoun: yeah, it's definitely a journey. Uh, but it is very worth it. And there's some rewards at every turn. you know, those smaller little, uh, peaks that you achieve. Um, I, you know, as I think back when I moved into project management and I did that for a few years, I realized I didn't like project management. Uh, but it was not a waste of time for me.

[00:33:03] Joe Miller: That's good.

[00:33:04] Nicole Calhoun: I learned what I liked and what I didn't like. Yes. But I also, I also grew. Significantly in different areas that I'm using today. So it wasn't a waste of time and I get the question a lot, Joe, of 

how do you know what your next step is? What to do next? And I, I, I tell people to pick something and try it.

Something of interest. It's not going to be a waste of time. Now. I'm not saying go out and quit your day job and do something extreme I'm saying, you know, you can volunteer for different things just to see if you if you would like doing You know that function or whatnot but it's never a waste of time because you're gonna learn something and you're gonna develop some skills and you're gonna make some connections that's gonna Benefit you somewhere in the future Nothing that I've ever done, Joe has been a waste of time.

It's been a stepping stone for, for where I am now.

[00:34:05] Joe Miller: a, looking back in time

[00:34:09] Nicole Calhoun: Oh, it's looking back.

[00:34:10] Track 1: because,

[00:34:11] Nicole Calhoun: Because I, yeah, it's definitely looking back.

[00:34:14] Joe Miller: now having been, I think after you've been through several of these different shifts that you learn, that you realize you learn something from it probably, as you look at something going forward, you're a little bit more intention. You have that in your, in your mind. I learned something.

So worst case, I'm going to learn something,

[00:34:32] Nicole Calhoun: Yes, you're right.

[00:34:34] Joe Miller: young, younger and early in your And sometimes you're in the middle of something and. It just feels like you're jumping back and forth and it can get really discouraging. You're not quite sure why.

[00:34:44] Nicole Calhoun: Mm

[00:34:45] Joe Miller: People sometimes think there's something wrong with them they go and take a position or a role and it's really hard and they don't feel real good about it. I it's very good to have that glass half full perspective saying at least I am. What is it about this? I don't like. All right. Given the choice, I wouldn't do this again. You know, maybe they're just missing some skill or knowledge. That's always could be the case, but it. If they have this requisite skills, knowledge, and they still just, it drains them.

I always like to use the energy diagnostic. If it just drains

you, dragging a boulder up a hill. 

[00:35:24] Track 1: Write 

[00:35:24] Joe Miller: this down. 

[00:35:25] Track 1: Do not repeat 

[00:35:27] Joe Miller: this because there's enough. Everyone has something. I'm back to gifting again. Everyone is gifted in certain things and it's almost the opposite. It's you could do that 12 hours a day. Feel energized by it.

[00:35:41] Nicole Calhoun: You can get lost in it, actually.

[00:35:42] Joe Miller: Yeah. You go

go,

[00:35:44] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah.

[00:35:46] Joe Miller: it is huge value to know what you want to say no to in the future.

[00:35:49] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. Yeah, and then the other side of that Joe is sometimes because we've had experiences where I'm gonna try my hand at this Because I've tried my hand at a number of things and not just within my career, outside of my career, uh, entrepreneurial minded and When I think about it, it's just hilarious But you as you are trying to figure out what that thing is for you What that that next move is for you.

Sometimes you try this you try that You And, and you start to feel like, well, people are watching and thinking, I have no clue what I'm doing. And, and really, and I know I've talked to so many people this, I've tried this and this didn't work out. And I know people have this opinion and I had to let that go.

I had to let it completely let it go. Because again, it goes back to, there's something I've learned in it. Joe, I sold, uh, children's, uh, party supplies.

[00:36:47] Joe Miller: Wow.

[00:36:49] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah,

[00:36:50] Joe Miller: Yeah. That's on

[00:36:51] Nicole Calhoun: and there's things that I've learned in that. I'm sorry.

[00:36:54] Track 1: of things 

[00:36:54] Joe Miller: you've done that you can bring up in a

[00:36:56] Nicole Calhoun: That, that is,

[00:36:56] Track 1: say, 

[00:36:57] Joe Miller: someone to sell party supplies. 

[00:36:59] Track 1: I'm your person.

[00:37:01] Nicole Calhoun: but you know, now I know, know there's different things that I know how to do. I know how to, you know, get products made and, and things like that. And, you know, skills that I can use elsewhere. I, now I am not trying to go and find party supplies for you, but there are things that I've learned from that experience.

You know, and so, um, that's why I say none of this wasted.

[00:37:24] Joe Miller: Well, if you were to think back and, or in your coaching, I know you're not doing that much because you have a full time job and you also have other things So speaking, if you were to think back, uh, what advice you would give yourself now that you know what you know, it's that question, or, you know, if you have a younger or someone earlier in their career that you're coaching, are there certain nuggets that you share with them that I mean, it might wrap of this stuff together in a certain way.

Ah,

[00:37:54] Nicole Calhoun: Absolutely. Uh, the first thing is, um, become comfortable in who you are. Uh, one of my problems is I was raised by a very strong willed mother and I can be very strong willed And because of the perception of what I thought was expected of me, I kind of held a lot of that back. But it's those things that made me, made me who I am, that's actually what I'm really great at, right?

There are situations where I've had to be very analytical as a child, and that made me into a very logical person, a problem solver. Right. It's some things have made me very determined. So that's what I was talking about when I saying, you know, I had to stop holding back who I was and, and be who I am because those things are my superpower.

Right. Those are, yeah, yeah. And the other thing, uh, I think the, one of the big mistakes I made early on my career is the thought that I am here to do my work, complete my work and leave. I did not make connections. I did not build my network. And I think I could have been further along if I had. And the reason why I say that is the last three positions that I've gotten, and I've gotten through my network.

So I spent prior to, uh, the company I'm, I'm, I'm with now, I was at my previous company about nine years, and then I spent about, I would say another nine years at my current company in the same role and within the past seven, eight years, I've been in the same role. I've been able to take three different roles and three of those roles, I mean all three of them, were through my network.

[00:39:52] Joe Miller: It's huge.

[00:39:54] Nicole Calhoun: So building those relationships. Yeah, it's important. I I'm not saying that, you know, that you have to divulge all of your personal business, your deepest, darkest secrets with people on the job. But what I am saying is these are real people and make real connections with people and just doing that, uh, Helps you to understand, learn about the organization, what's important for the organization, how to, uh, politic, be politically savvy, , because that's needed, right?

[00:40:27] Joe Miller: Yes, it

[00:40:28] Nicole Calhoun: So yeah, those two things. Bring yourself your whole self to the table. Don't hold back and, uh, make those connections and build your network.

[00:40:39] Joe Miller: That's awesome. and those net, those networking connections. I, I get a little bit annoyed with, You know, is great in many ways, but you get these connection requests from people. 

[00:40:51] Track 1: And sometimes, 

[00:40:53] Joe Miller: you know, am, I'm retired. I have a little side thing. I do business, but I don't really need to boost my sales. know what I mean?

[00:41:02] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:03] Joe Miller: me and

[00:41:04] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah.

[00:41:04] Track 1: Oh, 

[00:41:05] Joe Miller: this like my field. And they cloak it sometimes. 

[00:41:10] Track 1: And then I go, I 

[00:41:11] Joe Miller: give it about an hour. It's usually about an hour later. I'll get a, message or a email say, Hey, I've got this product.

Would you be interested? I'm 

[00:41:20] Track 1: like,

[00:41:21] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah, we're not talking about building your network in that way.

[00:41:24] Track 1: saying is the time to think 

[00:41:26] Joe Miller: about it. And the way to think about it is not. those lines, that's not what you get. You, I think the relationships that are of value, you have to enter into them sort of a servant's kind of perspective. How can

[00:41:39] Nicole Calhoun: Yes. Oh my goodness.

[00:41:50] Joe Miller: you know?

anyway, that's my soapbox. 

[00:41:54] Track 1: Well, this 

[00:41:55] Joe Miller: is, this been great. Um, What are you currently in the middle of? Are you have anything coming up you're going to be doing? I could be rinse and repeating some of your talks or am going to uh, 

[00:42:09] Track 1: private, uh, 

[00:42:10] Joe Miller: CIO group to special call one Here I am pulling from relationship 

[00:42:17] Track 1: strike this what's coming up for you, Nicole.

[00:42:21] Nicole Calhoun: So, you know, what's coming up? I do have that organization that I told you I work with. I'm a part of Empowering Women in Industry. Uh, they have some things coming up later, uh, third quarter, third, fourth quarter that I'll be doing, uh, with the workload that I have now. And in my, uh, job, it kind of limits what I can do.

I am working on a new talk. I'm not working on it fast enough, but it's called Maximize Your Presence. And it's really about, uh, the role of executive presence. Uh, the, the role it plays in your career. And so many times people hear that term, or Many people haven't heard the term, but sometimes when people hear the term executive presence, they automatically think higher level leadership, and that's really not what it's about.

Uh, it's about, um, uh, the, I don't like to call it the wow factor you bring and, and what people know this about you when you, uh, walk into a space, the thought leadership. you know, just the, it's just the whole encompassing, uh, presence that you bring.

[00:43:31] Joe Miller: the I don't know what the right word is.

[00:43:33] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. Charisma is part of it. There's different components of it, but all of those things combine together between, you know, your knowledge and your understanding, your accomplishments, your communication, um, the way you present yourself, like you said, the charisma, all these things working together, uh, helps to, uh, relay.

A sense of accomplishment, not just accomplishment, that's not the word I was looking for. Uh, confidence. And in yourself, which in turns, uh, helps other to be others to be confident in you. And so I'm working on that, but I am not developing it as fast as I would like to.

[00:44:11] Joe Miller: that's to be 

[00:44:12] Track 1: a good one. you're

[00:44:14] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah, I believe so.

[00:44:15] Track 1: will 

[00:44:15] Joe Miller: be, you know, available to anyone who wants to hear it.

[00:44:19] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah.

[00:44:20] Track 1: unveiled,

[00:44:21] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:22] Joe Miller: definitely be watching for that. What's the best way for, for folks to reach you? Just LinkedIn?

[00:44:26] Nicole Calhoun: Yeah. LinkedIn. Nicole, C as in Cat, Calhoun, C-A-L-H-O-U-N. Best way to, to reach out to me. Uh, if you send me a message, let me know. If you connect with me, first of all, send me a message and let me know how you, uh, got connected with me. And, uh, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out.

[00:44:44] Joe Miller: Well, I'll definitely in the show notes, I'll, I'll link to your profile. I don't know if that's a good thing to do on YouTube or not, but I will do it.

[00:44:52] Nicole Calhoun: Okay. Okay. Thank you.

[00:44:54] Track 1: I really want 

[00:44:54] Joe Miller: to thank you for joining us on Titans of Transition. I love the work you're doing. Great nuggets shared. I love that concept of showing up as your whole self, in particular, that I think that, wow, there's so much around that one. There's much around 

[00:45:11] Nicole Calhoun: Oh yeah.

[00:45:11] Track 1: but anyway, 

[00:45:12] Joe Miller: it's to reconnect with you. We had such a fun time working together on, uh, the Maxwell

[00:45:16] Nicole Calhoun: We did.

[00:45:17] Joe Miller: Uh, haven't been to a meeting Maybe I'll see you back there sometime in the next year or so. But, uh, again, thanks for joining us on Titans.

[00:45:24] Nicole Calhoun: Thank you, Joe.

Hey, thanks for joining me today on Titans of Transition. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please check the show notes for additional information.