Joe Miller: Hey everyone. Welcome to Titans of Transition. I'm pleased to, welcome Jay Johnson here to the show. Jay, say hello to. 

Jay Johnson: Hey everybody. Joe, it's good to see you, sir. It's good to, join you in this space. 

Joe Miller: Jay and I met in the Maxwell community, this leadership certification. Organization and service organization, where many have gone to, as they transition into new careers, looking to equip themselves to teach, to coach, to develop their own, businesses.

And,I was recently at a PODFEST, my first podcasting conference in Orlando, a month or so ago. And I was chatting with a couple people at a mixer and they happened to be ex-military. Guys who had retired from military and. , you retire from the military, you, you have to educate me, maybe some others, as well.

But, you still have a lot of time left on the clock, people put in 20, 25 years, something like that. Jay? And then 

Jay Johnson: That's right. 

Joe Miller: they're up for retirement and, so I thought we'd talk about that a little. and in, in, the context of maybe starting that up is to, let's tell us about your transition from the military because you did this yourself, right?

Jay Johnson: I did. Joe, yeah. Thanks. Thanks for that. Thanks for having me again. And yeah, Joe, so I grew up in Oklahoma, graduated high school at 17, and I had been in the grocery business for, I don't know, a good while working for a company that I bet a lot of people have, heard,or maybe even frequented the Winn-Dixie Oh yeah.

Grocery store. And and had done that for a while. Really enjoyed it. That store was eventually bought out by a local grocer, and I became a department manager, but, Somewhere into that, Joe, I just, I felt like I needed some maturing, if you will, There were still things I was aware that I needed to get better at, and 

I enlisted in the Air Force in 1986 and, at age 19 and.

I served 11 years as an enlisted guy. Happily, just for those of you that are listening, I loved, being what I still refer to today as where the rubber meets the road kind of thing. And, 11 years into that, the best leader I've ever worked for. This is probably for a future discussion maybe that you and I can have.

She saw something in me I didn't see in myself, and I ended up,buying into what she saw in me. And I left the Air Force in 97. Just walked away 11 years in just shy of 11 years, to be clear. A couple months shy, walked away, clean and enrolled at a university in the North Texas area and jumped into an ROTC program, reserve Officer Training Corps program.

It was there maybe 20 months. Graduated with a degree and then came back on active duty in, 1999 as a commissioned officer. And I served another 11 years, a little over 11 years, and then retired in 2010. And, my whole Air Force career, 

Joe Miller: 11 years. Okay. Just back that up just a second, if you wouldn't mind.

Jay Johnson: Sure. tell me again, how did you make that transition and how did this woman, get your mind opened up to the possibilities of doing something different? 

Yeah, that's fair, Joe. listen, she was my commander. And, I was a non-commissioned officer at the time and look at 11 years in, in a small community even that I was in as a career field.

I had made a name for myself. And I don't say that boastfully,I say that I really, put my all into it. And as we do anything, if we're really invested in something, I think we, Our efforts are rewarded, let me say that. And so she called me into her office and basically, she said something to the effect of,Jay, I think you're playing it small or I think there's a bigger opportunity out there for you.

I wanna run something by you. And, and she talked about this opportunity to pursue a commission. And we had a lot of dialogue around that. You know, I didn't see myself in that light, but, essentially she said, I think you would be exceptional. You can have, A big effect leading others on this other side of the equation, right?

Not being an enlisted guy, being a commissioned officer. And I think you can make an effect in either, just to be clear, but she was just saying you can have a, a broader potential opportunity here. And so she convinced me to do that. And Joe, I'm just gonna be honest with the listeners, that wasn't an easy decision.

because 11 years I had grown some deep roots. I was very comfortable, and that's not always a good thing. . But I was very comfortable in where I was and loved the fact that I'd created this, name for myself and that people would call me for advice. And, so to walk away from that, Joe wasn't easy.

And listen to this Joe, and to any of the listeners. This is really the toughest thing. I was married at the time, did not have any, kids. But, I was the primary breadwinner. And to make the transition to walk away from active duty. I no longer had an ID card. I was no longer receiving a paycheck.

They were not paying for college because when I enlisted into the Air Force in 86, I had turned down the GI bill. that's a whole other story. And I'll , a hard lesson . but to say all of that is because, the opportunity was you get into this program as a 30 something year old and you complete it, we'll guarantee to bring you back.

. But in between the time that I was out, it was on us to figure out how to survive. How to earn the money to pay the bills, to be a full-time college student. And for me as a 30 something year old, not get injured, not get sick, not do anything that was gonna disqualify me, I'm coming back on to active duty doing something I love.

Joe Miller: So there's a real, jog to you, this whole concept. as you said, and this is a huge theme that keeps repeating to everyone that I've heard their transition story, and that is the comfort zone. Being like tethers. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. 

Joe Miller: I mean it, they're positive. there's, it's comfort in, in many cases it's a good situation, but the idea and the notion there might be something even better.

But in order to get that even better, you've gotta step out and take some risks and you just unpacked some of those risks for us. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, there was a lot of fear and unknown, and look, I was entering a program that was predominantly, fielded by 19, 20, 21 year olds. when I was 30 or 31 years of age, when I left, active duty the first time and, took a risk.

Bet on myself and, and I didn't know what to expect if you want the truth, but yeah, there's a lot of fear attached to that. 

 People often, do the Benjamin Franklin thing, they do the pros and the cons and they do this mental exercise, but there's often something, and I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but there's often some situation, some voice that just pushes them over.

Joe Miller: Was there something like that, that kind of had you cross that precipice? I'll call it a precipice Cause maybe is the way it felt. Yeah. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. I think there is Joe and, I think it's this, Cindy, my commander at the time, right back then she was ma'am to me. the belief she placed in. and the admiration I had for her even today.

She remains the best leader I've ever worked for, in my life. I'm in my mid fifties, so to have her pull me aside and say, I think you have an opportunity. I see the way people respond to you. I really wish you would consider this. I know you can do it. that was really the precipice, if you want the truth.

I remember going home and I was married at the time and having a conversation with my then wife and just saying, this is what the conversation was today. And I've never once considered that, and I don't know, what do you think? And across a coffee table, we have a little dialogue.

Here's something interesting. It was still an application process. once I reached the point in my mind where I thought, okay, I'm gonna give this a try, it wasn't a guarantee. So I had to build an application and staff a package and it had to be reviewed and blessed and, they generally don't take people who are pursuing non-technical majors, number one, meaning things that are not engineering, or math related, science related. And I was pursuing a non-technical major. And then, two, I was an older guy, 30 years of age coming up on 31. and here's what's interesting. I got turned down the first time, so Cindy convinced me to give this a go. I finally thought, you know what? I. I had such admiration respect for her.

She seems to definitely believes in me. I'm willing to try staffed a package. Several months go by and it came back with a, Hey, thanks for applying. No thanks. No, thanks . Yeah. And at that point, I think,at least I tried and I'm still immersed in, I'm still on active duty at that time, right?

Because I had to be approved in order to leave active. , I'm still immersed in my job. I'm still happy, love doing what I'm doing. A little disappointed. I wouldn't sure you know, lie to you, but she came back to me. Cindy came back to me some months later and she said, did you know you're actually permitted to apply twice?

And I said, ma'am, 

Joe Miller: She was not done. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, she wasn't done. I said, I really haven't given that much consideration. As she said, there's another board coming up and I think you ought to knock the dust off the package. maybe clean up a few things. I think you ought to try again. And so once again, the belief she put in me, I bet on myself and I jumped in again and not short time after that is when it came back with you been approved and a discharge date.

And it's real then, right? 

Joe Miller: Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. when you were retelling that a few minutes ago, I was thinking, oh my gosh, you applied. Did you have. Were you leaving? Whether you got it or not. I'm glad they didn't do that to you. 

Jay Johnson: No, they didn't do that to me. Yeah, that, that part was good. And the other thing in fairness, even though there was risk, right?

How was I gonna navigate paying for school? How was I gonna take care of my family? All those things. The one guarantee on the table, literally it was in the program that I applied through. was, if you complete the program, we promised to bring you back on active duty as okay. that was incentive.

I gotta go out there and do big things and good things, and if I pop out the other side, they're telling me a guarantee to bring me back. 

Joe Miller: Okay. So how long was the training or the process that you had to go through? 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, it was about 20 months long, roughly. I had to go complete my junior and senior academic work at a university. I had to get accepted into a degree program. I had to maintain all the same physical fitness standards that those that were in the ROTC program, 10 years, my junior, basically. 

Joe Miller: Mm-hmm. 

Jay Johnson: I had to perform at the same level that they did and at the minimums attached to all of those.

And, look, it was an overall good experience and I think the value in it Joe was, I was able to serve as a mentor to these people that were 10 years junior than me, because I had already been out there on active duty, albeit in a different kind of capacity than what they were pursuing. I had some life experience they didn't have.

Joe Miller: That's interesting. So you go into something like that and you think, am I gonna be accepted or not? And then you come out of it and. Yeah, you've gone through everything the same thing, and now they're looking at you like, he's already been out there and been in this service 10 plus years. And then you get that chance to speak into their lives and into their direction. So that's a really unique thing. Maybe that was something Cindy saw and foresaw that you could do. art, having already been in, in this special program and allowing you to go back through that commissioning process, that's fantastic.

So what happened next? 

Jay Johnson: I graduate in, may of 99 and some accolades coming outta school. you've always got people around you helping you be successful, right? So it wasn't just me. There were a lot of people that have been there alongside me throughout life, and so there were certainly in that program as well.

But May of 99, I graduate. I earned my commission. I returned to active duty. Now as a, as an older, Commissioned Officer Second Lieutenant, and for those of you that may be watching this either live or later down the road, if you have any military experience, when you're a second lieutenant, they generally don't regard you as having any knowledge.

You're a sponge. You're just trying to learn. So it didn't matter that I was now 31, 32 years of age and had been in the military for a while. I had to. , all of it back. I had to demonstrate and perform and, good ride all the way around Joe. I don't know what else to tell you, but that ended up being another 11 years.

Jay Johnson: I could have gone as far as what they would allow me to do. I could have served, a lot longer, but 11 years in 2010, my daughter at the time then was four years old, I had already missed a lot of her life, and I just thought you know, I'm gonna call this a career, but it was an easy transition back into active duty other than, being treated as if I'm wet behind the ear and don't have anything to offer yet.

Joe Miller: Yeah. Wow. So if you were looking back at this transition, this career transition, are there lessons from it that you can pull out for those listening who might be considering making a change. Maybe they feel like they're in a good situation, but they have an inkling that maybe they should take another path or go a different direction.

So I'm just wondering if there's some nuggets you can pull out that you would share it. And I know obviously you're a coach and you have a consulting business. You've had these conversations over and over again. So what would you offer there? 

Jay Johnson: I think that's such a great question, Joe.

 Maybe I'll do it this way. 

Jay Johnson: I have a mentor in my life. I don't, I won't say that I'm as actively mentored by him today as I was at one point, but he's still in my life and I feel like if I reached out to him, we'd pick up right where we were before. But some years ago, he had me do an exercise that was called a learning model of success.

He had me take a sheet of paper, turn it horizontal to me, and draw two perpendicular lines, one kind of at the top of that horizontal page. And then, one down towards the bottom and the top line he said, I just want you to put tick marks based on your age and where you are today, you can do 'em in increments of one, increments of five, increments of 10, whatever you want to do.

And so I, I put increments of five, I believe. And then he said, I just want you to think about significant events that have happened in your life all the way up to where you are now, whatever those were. And little things. I put a tick mark like age six. My mother was killed in a car accident. I was with her.

Jay Johnson: We were all together. We were returning from a family reunion heading into Christmas. Another tick mark, I take a job as a nine or 10 year old. I'm delivering newspapers. Then I signify a few things that happened in high school, and then I start working in the grocery business and I go all the way through my military career and where I was at the time I did this exercise with him. And he said, then on the timeline down below, I want you to 

correlate what did you learn from these changes are significantly called out, and this is when all this stuff jumped out to me, Joe. I would've never bet on myself like, like I did when Cindy encouraged me.

Like I always have said to people, up until I did this exercise with my mentor Joe, I always said, I'm risk averse. I don't wanna take any big risk. I don't wanna do anything that could jeopardize my finances or jeopardize my reputation or whatever it may have been. But I did this exercise with him and what I found that lept off the page with me that I hadn't considered before was some of the biggest wins I've ever had in my life is when I took significant risk.

It was a huge risk, to go from being a department manager in a grocery store where I was making really good money in the mid eighties, if you want the truth, and walk away from that to join the military. Something I swore I would never do in life, and yet I did it. And then it was a big risk to listen to a leader who was influential in my life that I admired and respected.

Tell me she saw something more in me and believed I could make an even greater impact if I would just consider. And so those kinds of things, that's the advice, Joe. Comfort being in your comfort zone, I understand why as human beings, how we get anchored there and how it serves us. It's important to understand it, it makes life a little easier, but the comfort zone isn't necessarily a good place to be.

If we're sitting idle, if we're sitting stagnant or growing stagnant, that probably means we're not growing. And so in order to really I think develop as humans and to have experiences, we've gotta be willing to lean in a little bit and go a little further out on that limb. And I, what I would encourage anyone is if you've gotta dream a goal that's sitting inside of you, waiting to be birthed, you're the only one that can do it.

Jay Johnson: And I think that's what I would say is, you can either arrive at some point late in life and go, oh, I wish I had tried X, whatever that is. Or you can lean in and bet on yourself and borrow the beliefs of others like I did Cindy's belief in me, and you may have, some really amazing outcomes from that.

Joe Miller: Yeah, that comment about Cindy, speaking into your life and encouraging you, that's a key tactic that can be used. You can react. In that case you weren't looking for that. 

Jay Johnson: That's true. 

Joe Miller: But you listened to it because there was a deep relationship and you trusted her, you had a lot of respect for her.

Jay Johnson: That's true. 

Joe Miller: Her voice went a long way. Or you can proactively look for, look around you and say, who are those people I trust? I've got something going on inside of me and I'm not sure how to process that. 

Jay Johnson: That's right. 

Joe Miller: And you can have those conversations with the people you trust or you can engage a.coach that can take you through that process. So those are definitely some things that I think are great, but this comfort zone thing, I want to camp on this just a second and just give you a couple thoughts there. We are wired biologically for safety and comfortJay, you talked about that, but also how we approach comfort zone and change has a lot to do with our personal wiring. Yeah. And so let me just take a minute. There's a number of different tools that people probably used to get a sense on their personality type. Most people are familiar with Myers Briggs. DISC is one that I know that Maxwell team uses and offers certification in.

I'm pretty sure you use DISC. I use one called the Kolby Index. A lot of these things will give you additional insight on how you approach things. Kolby's a little different because it talks about how you actually expend your creative energy. . The way I'm wired in the Colby is as a risk taker.

It's called a quick start. I don't initiate spending my creative energy through doing research. I do enough to prove my intuition and notion, this is can be dangerous. And then once I'm pretty sure I'm willing to jump and go for it. 

Jay Johnson: Nice. 

Joe Miller: And oh my goodness, the number of times I've changed jobs and moved States, my wife is so loving and forgiving. Because of that I was able to make some forward progress, but without other people in my team to keep an eye on me and speaking to my life who were more fact finders, more people who were more deliberate and evidence based. I had some, rough spots in my career because of that. But I just wanted to say that if a person is wired,maybe more deliberate, you, your natural inclination is you want to gather all the information you can to make sure you make a perfect decision without risk.

No such decision exists, right? 

Jay Johnson: That's true. A hundred percent. 

Joe Miller: But it goes against the grain of a person like that. So one thing you can do is you can take smaller steps. In a way your application process was a small step. It wasn't like you're in go, it was let's do something and see a result, something smaller. And you were still active duty if it didn't work out.

Lots of times I advise people who think they might wanna go into a different career or different industry within the same career is do informational interviews.

Jay Johnson: Oh, I love I Joe.

Joe Miller: Yeah, talk about that cuz I think that's a really good tactic to do exploration. 

Yeah. I love that you just said that, Joe, because one of the things that I do today in my business, I live in the San Antonio, Texas area.

Jay Johnson: There are several military installations near us. They all fall under what is now called a joint based structure. So it's called joint based San Antonio, and there's a couple Air Force bases and an Army Post that are all under. from a, support standpoint, they all fall under one, Commander. I'm talking about the infrastructure, that kind of thing, the basic services, those are all provided, underneath the Air Force here locally. There are some joint bases where the Army has the lead on it.

I think there's one even where Navy's lead. I say all that because I have the privilege of being a contractor leading an executive transition assistance program called an ETAP. So these are our senior military leaders. 

Joe Miller: Military always has great names for things. 

Jay Johnson: They do. Yeah, they do , but these are all senior military men and women.

We're talking colonels and generals and E9s on the enlisted site. Chiefs command, sergeant majors, those kinds of things. I was just talking to a group of them about informational interviews and I said, look, it's really risk free and the beauty of it is there's not the same pressure affiliated with it.

So here's the way, I tend to try to tell people when you're thinking about transition, number one, you've gotta get clear about what you want to do. You gotta know your giftings. Know what you're good at. I love to say what gives you life, right? When you're doing it, you just feel alive, you're energized, you're happy.

Get clear about those things. And then once you know what it is you want to do, go look at companies that do that. Research their values, make sure there's a values match. And then I encourage them to identify an influencer inside that company. If they can get all the way up to the CEO level, fantastic, right?

Jay Johnson: CEO, COO somebody up in that C-suite level and request an informational interview. And a lot of times you'll be surprised, you may have to be flexible with their schedule, but they'll grant that and maybe they're only gonna give you 15 minutes if you can get more than that fantastic just go in and make it about them.

Learn as much as you can about their company. I really believe Joe, that when you're in situations like that, the law of reciprocity kicks in. You're gonna be asking about them and they're naturally gonna be curious about your background. They're gonna ask you some questions too. I have found, Joe, that there are times when companies hire somebody and they didn't even have an active job ad or posting out there, right?

Joe Miller: Yeah. Especially to your point. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. 

Joe Miller: If you can, the higher the organization you get, if they see the person with the right attributes, they will make a position. 

Jay Johnson: Joe I a hundred, that's what I tell people. They don't want you to get away and go work for a competitor if they can retain you. , And look, there's a talent war out there, right? 

Joe Miller: Oh man. Big time. 

Jay Johnson: Companies are trying to find the very best, and it is a, competitive field,that's being sought after and if they run across you and they think you're the right one and you have what they need, they will create a position.

I really believe that. The key is, Joe, you hit on something, you gotta find the right person to try to get an interview with and people at the C-suite level, the senior leader level, the director, executive director levels, they've all got gatekeepers. And if you're not careful, a gatekeeper will, do the Heisman, put the arm out, hold you at bay and you just can't get in. This is why I love platforms like LinkedIn because you can build relationships, make connections, and hopefully something of that nature will give you that in you need, to get to the right person to make it a meaningful exchange. 

Joe Miller: I think there may be a, like a substep or a step before that when I was indicating informational interviews because if you go into a C-suite type individual and you're still muddled in your brain about what you're thinking, 

Jay Johnson: that's right, 

Joe Miller: it isn't gonna land very well. But if you have a friend or someone you trust who knows someone in an industry or knows someone in a type of career that you're curious about, that will work because, You are borrowing their relationship in a sense or their trust.

Jay Johnson: I agree. 

Joe Miller: So if you're gonna refer someone, you're borrowing that and that's what LinkedIn was built to do. It's gotten a little squirrely lately, I think, . but if you really do have a connection, then I think that's a good first step. And then if you can, if you're pretty sure and you really want to be available to do a quick pivot and say yes to maybe a position or be able to be at least well informed enough to answer a good, hard question about why you want to do something, why you might wanna make a move, then Yeah, that's brilliant going to that next step. 

Jay Johnson: There's one other aspect too, Joe. This is just wait on my spirit. I don't think I came in with any intention or even a belief that we may go there, but look, cultivating relationships is , why we are here as human beings. 

Joe Miller: Yes. 

Jay Johnson: We're meant to be in community and I understand we're wired differently. You were talking about some of these assessing tools earlier and you named Meyers Briggs and Kolbe, I think you called it.

Joe Miller: Yeah. 

Jay Johnson: And DISC. And I've done path elements in the past and true colors, and there's enneagrams and strength finders and, 

Joe Miller: there's a lot of them. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. It just keeps going and I like them all right. I commend anyone who's trying to learn more about themselves. And I say this, I know some people are more reserved.

They're not as comfortable getting out and meeting, but I'm gonna encourage you to do it. The time to have a plan is before one's needed, not when it's needed. And so right now I'm trying to these senior military leaders who are, two years out to six months out from retiring, leaving something they've done probably their whole adult life up to this point.

So it could be 20 to 30 plus years they've served. Joe. I'm trying to encourage them right now, come join me at a Chamber of Commerce event. Come join me at a Rotary Club luncheon. Hey, come join me for this networking event. And I'm just trying to get 'em outside the wire is what I would call it. 

Joe Miller: Yeah. Good term. 

Jay Johnson: And begin to cultivate meaningful relationships out in the community, even if it's not the community that they are gonna stay in, when they retire. I just think getting out and meeting 

Joe Miller: exposed. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. Hearing what they're doing. it informs knowledge is power. 

Joe Miller: Yes. you touched on gifting and I really am into that as one of the key things I use in my coaching, and I've talked about it on this podcast a lot, and that is that I think that people get in, especially when they get well into their career, they get a little bit discouraged that they're not moving forward or not seeing the benefits that they'd like to see or they had in mind. And they're not quite sure why. There can be a number of different reasons for that of course, but one thing that comes up a lot is that I think people can become skilled and trained in a particular area. Maybe their parents really wanted them to be a lawyer, maybe their parents or someone else they admired, went in a certain direction and they followed them in that direction and they got competent, they got skilled, they got rewarded for the skills.

And this is my story to a certain level. I went into information technology and I was really more of a change agent. I didn't come through the technical ranks per se.It wasn't really natural, but I got good at leading change and, I got rewarded. It was a good career, but well into my career, I just felt restless. And I think a lot of people have this sense of restlessness. Now, I was using what I would call my God-given gifts, but they were more secondary in my focus rather than primary. And I think that people can leave some of those gifts on the table and not bring them to the fore because they don't see the value in them, per se, within the structure and the confines of a position they're holding.

Something of that nature. And I think Cindy probably looked at you and said, there's a gifting here. And he's good at his job, but there's some diamonds here in the rough or there's some stuff we're living on the table that I think for the organizational benefit, I'd like to see him move in that direction to become all you can be.

Jay Johnson: Yeah. 

Joe Miller: And the other thing and final thought, and that is if a person feels like they're doing okay in their career, but they're exhausted all the time, that's to me a little bit of an, diagnostic indicator that you're putting too much energy into something that may not come naturally to them. They can still be competent, but it's gonna take more juice to get it to happen.

So just some thoughts, I'd be interested in your reflection on that. 

Jay Johnson: You touched on a lot right there. It really resonated with me and I think if you permit me, I'm gonna share 

Joe Miller: Yes, please. 

a few 

Jay Johnson: things, here as well. First, I would tell you, Joe, I don't know if this is your experience. I'm out speaking and interacting in groups almost every day of the week. As a speaker I'm out speaking to at conferences and inside organizations. And it's not, qualified as a percentile, what I'm about to say it's what I feel I've heard enough at this point. I'm willing to bet about 70% of the people I meet loathe, not love, loathe what they do for a living.

And when they tell me they feel unfulfilled or they don't like what they do, I generally follow that up with, what would you like to do? Or, what is it that's keeping you there? What is it that's holding you back from making a change? And usually I hear something like this, it's all I know.

I just can't imagine at this place in my life, reinventing myself. So that really breaks my heart. Yeah. If you want the truth, and it's one of the things that keeps me going out there to try to talk to, the inner being, to try to get people to touch that dream or goal that they've always had and maybe got suppressed.

Jay Johnson: Intentionally or unintentionally, right? It could have been something a teacher said when they were a youth, oh, Jay, you're just not very good at that. And I'm like, oh, I shouldn't be doing that. Maybe I just wasn't applying myself at that time, or, maybe I just hadn't spent enough time with it to let this manifest in me.

So Joe, that's the first thing I hate hearing. 

Joe Miller: Yeah. 

Jay Johnson: It's not like this is a dress rehearsal. This thing called life. And we get one go with this thing in our earthly bodies. We get one go at this thing. 

Joe Miller: Yep. Absolutely. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, I wanna see people live it out.

I wanna see people tap into who they were created to be and to and to use those giftings that you've touched on because I think those giftings are intended for others, not just 

Joe Miller: Absolutely. And I echo that and I believe that, it's the golden rule, right? So yeah, that's the second part of the golden rule is love our neighbor and serve our neighbors.

And I think that, you said a lot too. I think that , this whole idea.of wasting the time you have left. I hate to put it that way. but people can become so stuck. And I know this, I'm gonna use this analogy. I know it's been used a lot, and maybe it's not a hundred percent true all the time, but I remember telling this to my mom and dad who are fighting like cats and dogs towards, towards the end stages of their lives for a period of time.

I said, I just looked at them, I almost yelled at 'em, I said, you were wasting your time. You are fighting to win a argument andthen I use the analogy, you're like a monkey being caught by the fruit in the coconut. Yeah. Where your fist becomes enlarged to hold that prize to hold what you want.

That you cannot get your hand out unless you release. That's so you have to release what's comfortable. In order to be freed up to move towards what's better Isn't it interesting Joe? I don't mean to step on you. Isn't it interesting when you talk to most people at the later stages of life, particularly when they now realize that you know their time's coming, right?

, Their mortality is really in front of them most spend a lot of time looking back, reflectively, and I would say most people that I've talked to, there always seems to be regrets, that are thought about. Oh, if I'd only known that all the time I spent arguing, was wasted time to your point.

Jay Johnson: And I, I would've much rather spent that time with my loved ones. I would've much rather have taken the trip. I would've much rather have pursued my heart's desire. I would've much rather, I, I just think, how beautiful would it be if in those final days we get to just reflect back with our loved ones and be thankful and grateful for the lives we touched and the things we got to experience together. To me that will be a life well lived and fulfilled. And,

Joe Miller: Yes.

Jay Johnson: Joe, I think I'm trying to do some of that now. I'm trying to create some legacy. I'm trying to, few things fuel me more Joe than when someone comes to me after an event I've spoken at and they say something like, Jay, you just unlocked a door that I've been trapped behind for a very long time. Or Jay, you've changed my life. That does it for me. That's, 

Joe Miller: Yep. 

Jay Johnson: That's it. I, anyway, I don't know Joe. I just want that for everybody. 

Joe Miller: Yeah. I think that's the bigger reward. I'm retired. Don't ask my wife, I'm still too busy. But, um, I'm retired so I'm not in it so much for the big paychecks or anything like that, but, people who do this, that kind of are in the same camp as us, that's the payoff. That's the payoff. It's seeing the lives changed, seeing people grabbing a hole of what's possible. Thinking, I love that, going outside the wire, is that what you said? 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. 

Joe Miller: Oh, that's cool. I love that. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. 

Joe Miller: That is great. listen, Jay, I wanna segue just a little bit.

Jay Johnson: Sure. 

Joe Miller: And, give you an opportunity to tell us about, your organization and what you do. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, so Joe, I operate a consulting business, like you, certified coach.

I do a lot of training inside companies and my passion, if you haven't seen it come out or me allude to it already, my passion is speaking. And my portfolio, if I was just easily consolidate it, I would probably spend 60% of my time inside companies training, working with their executive teams, or collectively their teams as a whole, helping them communicate better, develop leadership.

Trust is one of my, most known for kinds of topics or curriculum that I carry into organizations. I love speaking on mindset and belief systems , but thenthe rest of my portfolio time, probably equally 20% coaching and 20% speaking. If I could flip it, I, I'd rather speak 60% of the time probably, but training and being in an organization is speaking.

Jay Johnson: So my business has been in place for eight years. I travel, in fact, I'll be in Virginia, the Hampton, Virginia area in about a week and a half speaking, and I'll be in Illinois, this summer. I'll be in Oklahoma City in April. So Joe, all those things were if can do I have a moment? Can I share just one other picture?

Joe Miller: Absolutely. Yes, of course. 

Jay Johnson: Joe. Here was one other transitional point in my life. so when I retired from active duty in 2010, I chose to stay comfortable and this is why I'm telling people this comfortable isn't a good. In 2010, when I retired from active duty, the government dangled a carrot and they said, we would love to retain you as a government civil servant.

And easy, right? It was gonna be a Monday to Friday job, weekends off, really good pay, really good benefits, and it was something I was already familiar with. And so literally two weeks after I stepped out of uniform. I showed up at work in a suit and tie in a different organization, but on the same air base that I had retired out of.

Four years into that, Joe, I just did not have any degree of satisfaction, if you want the truth. I was still serving alongside amazing men and women who I knew, shared values that I sh you know, had, we had a good mission. I was good at what I did, but I was so unfulfilled inside. And I would carry that home, Joe,into my home with my then wife and my daughter.

And I would just wall myself off from the world, sit in silence, be stuck in my head, do something mindless, turn a TV on and just sit doing the time. And at some point, Joe, I just realized my family couldn't pull me out of that. They couldn't tell me what it was I was seeking.

Certainly a lot of prayerful time with my creator was spent, but I realized it was me. I had to get clear about those things. And Joe, that's how I ended up being a coach. and, going after my coaching certification and desiring to pursue being a motivational speaker. But here's the deal, Joe, listen to this.

Jay Johnson: This is true. I made the decision to walk away from my government civil servant job where I was making really good money. Just walk away. I knew nothing about being an entrepreneur, nothing. I had never had an entrepreneurial bone in my body until one day I did. And as I've said, I'm walking away from this with no income to replace that government civil service income.

Somebody who worked for me said, Jay, you'll be back. And I remember looking at him, and I said, I promise you I won't Ed. And he says, Jay, they all come back. 

Joe Miller: They all come back. Sounds like a science fiction line. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, it does come back. here's the deal. you and I have probably heard this story beforeit comes out of one of John Maxwell's books. I think he tells the story probably in the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. That's what my brain tells me. He talks about Cortez arriving in the new world. His men were, disgruntled and they longed for what they had left behind. And he basically Cortez, it's rumored, turned to his men and he said, scuttle the ships right?

Sink 'em, set 'em a blaze. He said, because as long as we have a place to retreat, we're never gonna be successful. We're never gonna make it work. So they scuttled the ships. And that's the way I approached that transition when I finally decided I wanted, And I found out what that looked like for me, even though it was completely different than anything I'd ever done.

I didn't leave a safe place to return. I put all of my energy and focus on building what I wanted, not what I didn't want. And Joe, it's been such an amazing ride. 

Joe Miller: Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. And again, I'm glad you shared that additional transition story that's in itself in addition what you shared with us, you were well into your career when you went through that transition.

That was down the line. I believe that it isn't a one and done thing. I like to use the mountain climbing analogy. You know what it's like when that, you see what you think the summit is. You come up to the top and then you get to that flat part, and then you see another piece. You head up there and there's another flat part.

That's true. And then sometimes you go down and up. It is a zigzaggy path, this career thing, this life thing. And just because you've made a transition, now you're trying to optimize the situation you're in. You may be in it for six months or six years and then say, I'm sensing this quiet. It's time to do some more work. It's time to pray. It's time to seek out some trusted advisors. It's time to see what's going on. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. And Joe, here's what's interesting too. I still didn't have it figured out, right? There was still a lot of fear. 

Joe Miller: Wait, there's more. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. But wait, there's, there was still a lot of fear and trepidation, uncertainty. I walked away from that government civil servant job and I was probably six months in now. , having my own business, which was only a naming convention, if you want the truth. I didn't have a ton of clientele. I wasn't earning any money if you want the truth. And I sit down at a conference and there's a young lady, a lady little younger than me, but probably close to my age, who had successfully been doing what I desire to do.

She had been doing it for a decade, and it was late in the evening as a one of the conference sessions was wrapping. And I just said, Hey, before we leave tomorrow, would it be possible to get 10 minutes of your time? I just feel like you might be able to help me. I've got some questions cuz I don't understand, some of this, I, what I'm doing doesn't seem to be working.

And she said, how about now? So I'm sitting talking to this lady and here's what I said. I said, I'm new to this entrepreneurial thing. I believe what I'm entered into is what I was created to do. I just don't know from a business standpoint how to make it work. Joe, here's what she said to me. She said, if all you're gonna do is hang your hat on someone else's coat rack, you're never gonna be successful.

And I don't know what it was in those prophetic words, but that's what really allowed me to come back home from this conference, get really clear about my brand, get really clear about who I am, get really clear about the message that I'm gonna carry out to the world. And it's uniquely mine. I'm fed from a lot of streams, as I believe you are, Joe, and so I leverage all of that, all the life experience, all the wins, all the shortcomings, the challenging parts, the joyful moments. When I go out to serve others, whether it's as a coach, a trainer, a speaker, they're gonna get authentically me, vulnerable me, transparent me, because I want them to know that, when they are willing to go deep and do the work and grab a hold of what it is that they want, and to hang onto it tightly until they bring it to fruition, it can really be a beautiful ride and one that I know they'll be thankful for in the end. But she helped me just by that comment. Quit trying to leverage someone else's name to be a success. How about you? Be you? 

Joe Miller: And what was that phrase again about hanging your hat? 

Jay Johnson: Yeah. She said, if all you're gonna do is try to hang your hat on someone else's coat rack, you're never gonna be successful.

Joe Miller: I love that. That's great, that's fantastic. Jay, this has been a real pleasure. Sorry, that was my dog barking in back there. 

Jay Johnson: Yeah, it's alright mine's here too. I'm surprised she didn't . 

Joe Miller: It's been a real pleasure, getting together with you and, I just, encourage anyone who watches, oh my goodness 

Jay Johnson: -and mailman.

Joe Miller: We have a Great Dane. She has woken from her nap. 

Jay Johnson: I like it. 

Joe Miller: If anyone wants to get a hold of you, Jay, your website, I will put in the comments, but you can tell us again, right? Tell us now as well. But I will also, put 'em in the comments of this episode. is that the best way for them to reach you?

What's the, 

Jay Johnson: yeah, I don't even mind sharing my cell number if you want the truth, Joe, but yeah. So my website is J2servantleadership.com. Joe, I love to tell people that J two does not stand for Jay Johnson . In the military we use these designators cells, if you will, of capability that, that people can quickly identify.

So in the Air Force, human resources is A1. in the Army, human resources is S1, and the Navy has their designator as well. 

Joe Miller: Oh, okay. 

Jay Johnson: In the Air Force intelligence, like the intelligence community is A2. In the Army, it's S2. When we deploy together, like if we are in a forward location serving alongside each other with joint service, that A or that S or N, it changes to a J, meaning it's a joint cell of capability, and then it has the number designator to tell you what that capability does. So the J2 is intended to be joint intelligent servant leadership where you and I come together and share our wisdom and intellect. We're infinitely smarter. So J2 servant leadership, Joe, that's how people find me.

Joe Miller: That's awesome. listen, again, I really want to thank you for being on the podcast and listen, let's stay in touch.

I'm looking forward to maybe a conversation down the line, so God bless you man.

Jay Johnson: God bless. 

Joe Miller: Great having you on the show. 

Jay Johnson: Thank you for having me, Joe. I appreciate it. 

Joe Miller: Hey, thanks for joining me today on Titans of Transition. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Please check the show notes for additional information. Also, please like and subscribe to this channel.