Let's say you're a leader in an organization and your team that you're responsible for is in a lot of turmoil because of messaging either internally to the company, what are externally in the world. How could some of these things be applied in sort of that real world type situation?

Yeah, so when we translate this into leadership, there's two dimensions to that that's important, Joe. You know, I've been through a lot of organizational upheaval. I've been through mergers, acquisitions. I've been laid off twice personally. I was in a circumstance where I laid off lots and lots of other people. There's a real world component to this for sure. And leaders have a special responsibility when it comes to navigating times of radical change. I think first, it's a matter of saying, do I want to be part of this radical change personally or not? That is the first question. So another example from my life, I was offered a really great job when I was very young. It meant moving to another city. And all I had to do was lie about a merger and acquisition issue that was about to face my staff. That's all I had to do, which is to train myself. I said, no, this is not for me. So there's an opt-out option as well, I think is important for people to navigate. The second, I guess that's the first thing. And then there's two other things. The two other things are know that you're going to be going through this personally as you're leading people through it themselves. There's a level of authenticity that people can see right through if you're just being the Apollo cheerleader, you know, just stiff upper lip to use to my British upbringing. This idea that we just need to marshal our energy and we'll get through it and so on. You're probably denying your own process and you're not helping other people authentically process through things themselves either. So First, you need to realize that you're in the midst of it yourself. If there are significant issues that are happening and how to be able to not separate completely, but there's level of compartmentalization that's important and authenticity as a leader that's necessary. So here's a specific example, Joe, when you're talking to your staff about something. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know how this will affect me personally. I'm concerned about some things too. I get it. And what I do have control over, Joe, at this point as a leader and you do as staff, you have control over how you feel about all of this. I have control about how I feel about this. So what I'm going to do at this point is be transparent as much as possible. I'll tell you what I can tell you. I'll talk about what I can talk about. And I'll tell you what I can't talk about. And you're going to need to trust me about that.

I tell you what I can do and what I can't do.

Yes. What do I have control over? I have control over my attitude. Right. You know, when people are afraid of job loss, oh my gosh, the worst thing to do is go hide. Because the people that are good at Discovering who should go, that's who you look for first, the people that are hiding. The best thing to do if you're afraid of job loss, and this comes to the other side of things, make yourself indispensable. Continue focusing on great work. Ladies and gentlemen, in my department that I'm leading here, no, we're not in control of all this other stuff that's happening. But we're still in control of doing great work. So I'm going to go down swinging if I go down. I'm going to go down doing great things to support the organization. Or I'm going to opt out. It's not this worry and wringing my hands and gnashing my teeth and accelerating all the activation of people's adrenaline and the fight, flight, or freeze. I'm not going to be part of that as a leader. Either I'm in or I'm not in. And for leaders, that can be a really hard choice because we're suffering with fear and anxiety and the unknown because we're human. And here's one of the weird things that happens in leadership. It's happened over and over and over again. When times are tough, And by the way, this is a natural process. That's something I wanted to share today also. Nature has a regular process of order, disorder, reorder. It happens every year with deciduous trees when they lose their leaves. And guess what? The tree is not worrying about whether it's going to lose its leaves. It's not worrying during the winter whether it's going to come back or not. And it's not worrying when the leaves start showing up again that they're going to eventually fall off. It's just a natural process. Or the caterpillar who goes from a caterpillar into a cocoon and then turns into a moth or a butterfly. There's no worry. The in-between state for a caterpillar before it becomes a butterfly, it doesn't look like either one. Great example. Completely liquefied. You know, what about like if you walked into the middle of an operating room during surgery, you think murder happened.

Yeah.

It doesn't look like it did and it doesn't look like it will. It's this in-between state. So order, disorder, reorder is natural. The problem is that we don't allow ourselves to see that. We're probably the only species on this planet that actually worries about it. Dogs don't worry about it. They just miss you and then you come home and they're excited. So this idea of leaders being able to help staff recognize that disorder is sometimes part of the natural process. and holding onto things the way they were, that's not natural. You know, we can get into real philosophical conversation at some point about this idea of impermanence, but nothing designed to last.

As you were talking about that situation, that leadership situation, since I am a coach, I wanted to say an empathetic leader should be coaching their staff on how to look at things. and clarifying what's real and what's not real, being transparent about their capabilities to help them through the process, what their limitations are. I've often coached people who have been interested in furthering their career, typically technology leaders, but others as well. And one of the common things that happens is they get into a state of angst because they don't feel like they're moving forward. They feel like they can't do anything about it. And sometimes, whether it's their fault or external factors, they're in a situation where success probably, there's not a lot upside for them there. Yet, they still feel like they should be. And you can offer suggestions on how you can do the things that help you stand out, all the typical things, manage your relationship with your boss. But underlying all of it, they are disempowered in a state of angst and almost panic, and they don't know what to do. And I have actually said to people before, you have a choice, you can stay and change your mindset, or you can leave, or you can work, maybe there's a third choice, or you can change your behaviors to stand out, but you may still end up feeling the same way. That's reality. So there's the world you want, And then there's the world that really is. And so, yeah, awareness first. But I just thought as you were going through that and unpacking that situation with your material that coaching people through these thought processes could be extremely helpful. A coaching program, Bob. You probably already have it designed.

Yeah, maybe this goes back to my Quaker background. I don't know. My family goes way back to the Quakers. And one of the things they have is a clearness committee. And a clearness committee is not a place to go get advice. You don't go there to be told anything. What you do is you go there and they ask you a lot of questions. And it's the idea for you to be able to get clear about the direction that you're in and why. So back to what you're saying, Joe, we always have a choice. Even if it's down to how I feel about it, maybe I have to stay in the circumstance for a period of time, but I can decide how I feel about that. No one is in control of my feelings except me. And that's, again, getting out of the echo chamber when people are trying to make you feel a certain way. But opt out, that's a powerful thing when people are in the midst of something that's very, very challenging to deal with. This, again, is a pretty deep philosophical topic, but there's this idea of opting out is not failing. I

can argue that it's probably the best choice. Yes. In certain circumstances, like the example you gave,

but many others. Often it's the best choice when you're being asked to do something that is immoral or unethical or illegal. You know, something that violates your personal set of values. Whenever you do that, you don't get it back. What happens when you cross the line is you betray a little bit of yourself. So when I'm coaching people, Joe, that's the answer. That's the question I asked them. Are you betraying yourself in some form or fashion by remaining in the circumstance that you're in or potentially staying in the same thought process that you're staying in? And if the answer to that is yes, it's like, that's a pretty clear indication to me that opting out is a good idea. Alternatively, maybe you're making it all up. The circumstance isn't even real and it doesn't belong to you and you're just You're putting all this bias and all this conditioning on top of somebody that doesn't deserve it. I find that a lot in mergers and acquisition work and reorganizations is people have a feeling in general that that radical type of change is just going to be bad. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like somebody reached out to me. They're applying for a job in a place where I have some relationships and some knowledge. I gave them a tip. take a look at this organization's values and connect your resume and your interview to their values. It'll make a big difference for you. It's like, well, that's a good idea. Pretty basic, actually. It's something that maybe we should do every day when we show up at work is to say, how can I help push the mission of the organization forward? So all that's kind of in the category, Joe, of what to do as a leader. There's a lot more... You know, the third part of my webinar gets into some really specific ideas associated with that. And I know we've got more sessions together. So I'm going to save.