Abby Clapper (00:00)
called the spoon theory, during the day it it takes you two spoons to to get out of bed. It'll take you a spoon to make breakfast, three spoons to walk the dog, but you only have 12 spoons for the whole day. So by, you know, 8 a.m. you've used over half your spoons. So if we use this spoon theory and you know we say your workout is going to cost you two spoons.

⁓ where is that gonna go? Do you wanna use those spoons earlier in the day so that you know that you have them? Or do we need to schedule it on a different, like a lighter day where you have more spoon availability?

Joe Miller (00:32)
Abby,

as a trainer, when when someone with ADHD comes to you.

And they say that they've been to the gym multiple times, but they haven't gone back, so they've struggled. What's the one thing you tell them right now that they might not hear from other trainers?

Abby Clapper (00:50)
I would say that they probably haven't found either the right system or the right type of workout that is meaningful to them that they want to stick with.

Joe Miller (01:00)
Okay, so let me let me let's dig into what do you mean by the right system?

Abby Clapper (01:04)
Yeah, so a lot of times with with neurodivergence and ADHD specifically, ⁓ you need to find a system that is going to support your brain and your body in a way that works differently than it might work for someone who doesn't have ADHD. So for example, someone with ADHD might need more accountability, more check-ins, they might need

notifications on their phone to remind them, yeah, now's my time to go to the gym or time blocking on their calendar.

Or even something as simple as like gamifying a workout, making it fun, or just finding something that gives them that dopamine hit that makes them wanna keep going back.

Joe Miller (01:43)
So well, we're gonna get a lot more into this, folks. But before we do, let's hear about your background, how'd you get into doing what you're doing today as a trainer? ⁓

Abby Clapper (01:53)
Yeah, real real quick. I was a three sport athlete in high school. So soccer, dance team, and cross country, knew what I wanted to do going into college. So was in the exercise science program when I went to school. And then right out of school, I went into corporate wellness. I did that for about five years. And now I've been on my own, owning my own personal training business for about three years and have my own podcast through it too.

Joe Miller (02:20)
That's awesome. And the transition from the from the corporate position

Abby Clapper (02:25)
Yes, yeah. They were they were making a move to a different building that didn't have a need for someone ⁓ to run a fitness center at their facility. So so yeah, my position was no longer needed. So thankfully I was able to find my own path after that. It was icky and it kinda hurt in the moment, but it all turned out the way it was supposed to after that.

Joe Miller (02:46)
I think it really just establishes your credibility for focusing in to in on people who are often underserved when we talk about exercise and and training. I mean, if you do a search on YouTube or or the internet, you you don't really find a tremendous amount of practical things. So, with that, for ADHD people that you work with.

Not the philosophical, but what are some of the real practical things you do as you help them get back into fitness and and structure their workouts?

Abby Clapper (03:20)
Yeah, so each client, ⁓ ADHD or not, but looking specifically at ADHD, needs something specific, which is going to be different from the next person who has ADHD a lot of times. So the things that I like to focus on are being that person to give them those check-ins, right? So on days that they have a scheduled workout or ⁓ so like let's say someone has a scheduled workout, I send them their workout.

And ⁓ on those days that I know that they need to be working out, I'm sending a check-in text saying, hey, what time are you working out today? Where does it fit in with your schedule? So that they're accountable to me. They know when they do their workout, they can come to me and say, okay, my workout's done. You know, we can check the box. I can celebrate with them. ⁓ for other people, for my in-person clients, I show up at their door. So there's no excuse. They can't, you know, decide that they want to do something else. I show up and

Joe Miller (04:06)
Yeah.

I guess they could not answer the door, but

Abby Clapper (04:12)
Which they

won't do. I've never had anyone not answer the door. So I know it's a tactic that works. If someone if I'm going to them, they're gonna do it whether they want to or not. So, you know, creating an environment that is really enjoyable for them to want to work out, picking exercises that they like doing, avoiding exercises that they hate doing because there's always something else that we can do. We don't have to do burpees, you know. Ever everybody hates burpees, we don't have to do burpees. So it's really just about

creating that enjoyment that's gonna keep someone consistently coming back and wanting to do it.

Joe Miller (04:44)
But isn't that kinda some of those things are kind of true with anyone though, right?

Abby Clapper (04:47)
That's very true. Yeah, absolutely.

But there are a lot of people who I think don't need like the accountability and the check-ins. And we see, I mean, we see a lot of times people will go through their workout program, but then they kind of fall off at the end. So I would say that they would need even something similar to the accountability, the someone showing up who's gonna hold them, you know, hold them accountable. but we also see a lot of times to make it like more enjoyable, especially for the ADHD brain, which can, you know.

want to be working on a lot of different things or focus on something that's not exercise. We want to make it something that they do want to focus on. So that's where kind of like I talked about at the top of the show, we can gamify it. So we can make it, you know, we can have a reward set for the end of a certain time period where they can reward themselves with something that they really like. Maybe it's a game, maybe it's a new pair of shoes. ⁓ again, finding those ways to find those dopamine hits, which I think

⁓ people who don't have ADHD also need to do, but maybe a little bit less so than we think.

Joe Miller (05:51)
Mm-hmm. You know, and I I just don't have real deep understanding of ADHD, although I probably have have it ⁓ to a certain degree. And we talked about that ⁓ last time. But ⁓ you know, it's it's not just as simple as inability or shorter attention span, inability to hold and hold your attention, right? So you mentioned dopamine hence hits and other things that feel like rewards to keeping people sort of focused. I don't know if I'm reading that right or not.

Abby Clapper (05:59)
Ha.

Yes, you are. And I think a lot of times too with with clients who are neurodivergent, sometimes like the executive function, meaning what the the capacity that your brain has to do all of the things that you want to do can be a little bit more limited. ⁓ you know, it can be a little bit more stretched thin depending on how taxing the day was on your brain. So it's really I think being a little bit more careful about how you approach your whole schedule.

whether that means, you know, moving a workout to another day if you're out of executive function, There's a something called the spoon theory, ⁓ meaning like during the day it it takes you two spoons to to get out of bed. It'll take you a spoon to make breakfast, three spoons to walk the dog, but you only have 12 spoons for the whole day. So by, you know, 8 a.m. you've used over half your spoons. So if we use this spoon theory and you know we say your workout is going to cost you two spoons.

⁓ where is that gonna go? Do you wanna use those spoons earlier in the day so that you know that you have them? Or do we need to schedule it on a different, like a lighter day where you have more spoon availability? Does that make sense?

Joe Miller (07:29)
Yeah, it does. I mean, I I think about it as like ⁓ your brain processing energy. And I guess that kind of correlates to the spoon theory. ⁓ I wonder if exercise in and of itself helps to ⁓ regenerate the pool of energy or the resources. Does that help?

Abby Clapper (07:34)
Mm-hmm.

For sure.

Yeah, it absolutely can. And I see that a lot of times where someone will be really exhausted or they'll be, you know, in a doom scroll ⁓ on their phone and they're like, I really need to get to the gym. And they'll tell me that. And I'm like, Great. Just so you know, when you go to the gym, you're gonna feel a lot better and you're probably gonna be more productive by at the end of it. And so sure enough, they get they go to the gym, they do their workout and they're like, you know what, I do feel a lot better. I feel like I can do a couple more things. So I think it has helped.

Joe Miller (08:15)
That's cool. So ⁓ and then as you watch those you are coaching, I'll call it coaching, ⁓ through the process, are there signals or cues that you need to that you pick up on when there's a drift or do you give them variety or do you I'm just kind of curious how you watch. I'm thinking my my coaching background and kind of the deep listening that we're trained to to use.

And wondering if there's sort of a deep observational aspect to being a good trainer for ADHD.

Abby Clapper (08:49)
There absolutely is. And I've seen this, ⁓ you know, over the past three years. And I can give you a couple of really good examples. So I like to schedule the way that I plan out my my clients' workouts is we do about 12 weeks at a time. So about three months, where you'll do the same exercises for three months, progressing hopefully in weight, ⁓ and you know, making little adjustments as we need to. But I've found that about after 12 weeks is when the brain starts to get bored. And that's when it starts to want something else.

So then, you know, usually around then it's it's funny, it's happened a couple of times where I've had a client say, Hey, I'm kind of getting bored with this workout. ⁓ and it's it's a week away from when I'm gonna change the workout anyways. So we're right around that 12 week point. So ⁓ about every 12 weeks is a is good to change it up, but I'm also so flexible. So if, you know, one of my clients, for example, one of my clients who I see in person, they'll say, you know, I

You know, I really like this. This has been great, but I need something else. I need something that's gonna keep it fresh and new for me. ⁓ we need to find that novelty. And so I'm for sure happy to change it to something else because it's easy to change the exercises into something that feels feels harder, feels more fun, feels interesting, ⁓ throwing in s some, you know, wild variation of something that makes them feel different in a good way. So yeah, I absolutely see that all the time.

Joe Miller (10:10)
That's cool. ⁓ so the other thing I would I just it came to mind is obviously you're in the Tampa area, right? So if someone's watching and they're going, gosh, I wish I could work with Abby, but I live in California or I live in New Jersey or or wherever it may be, what would be some things that you would suggest to them if they're looking for a good trainer for them that they would look for?

Abby Clapper (10:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So you want to find someone who is who's willing to work with you, you know, no matter how what your body or brain is feeling that day. Because if you go to a trainer and they're gonna give you the exact same workout that they've been giving you and you're just not feeling it, you want that trainer to be able to pivot and say, okay, today seems like you have a little bit less energy. We can take it down a notch, we can maybe do some stretching instead, something that's still gonna feel good for your body, but continue the consistency.

Of you coming here and seeing me and continuing with your motivation to to work out and make a change. So ⁓ sometimes I've seen trainers who will say, Too bad, it's either you do this workout or you can go home. You know, there's no middle ground and there should be, because sometimes the brain and the body just don't want to do exactly what you ask of it. And that's okay. So finding someone who's gonna listen and be flexible.

Joe Miller (11:29)
Awesome. Do you do remote sessions? I'm just kind of curious.

Abby Clapper (11:33)
Yes, I sure do. I do remote sessions. I've had so I'm in Tampa, Florida, but I did I've had a client in Arkansas. So, you know, I can do anything like that. And I also do a a monthly membership that if you feel like you don't need, you know, me to be right in front of you to watch you do your workouts, you're comfortable exercising, you just don't know what to do. I also have a monthly membership where you get your workouts sent to you through an app and then I still check in with you over text and make sure that you're doing what you're supposed to do.

Joe Miller (12:00)
That's cool. ⁓ there's another thing I kind of teased it earlier that's been in the news recently, and it's not so much specifically to ADHD, but I think it's fascinating, and that is, you know, everyone's gone crazy with the ⁓ GLP-1 agonists right now, the Ozempic and Wegovy and those kinds of things. But there's been ⁓ there was a recent study, ⁓

Abby Clapper (12:16)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Miller (12:24)
Come out and from the Endocrine Society. They did a presentation at their annual meeting. And they found out that people who are losing weight on some of these peptides, they actually are exercising. If they typically were going on walks and counting their steps as an example, they would be 560 fewer steps per day than they would be before. And I think we touched on this first episode too.

Is these drugs they not only ⁓ cut back your it isn't just cutting back your desire for satiation for with food, but it's everything. So it's almost like it cuts back on your ⁓ your ability to really stretch yourself and to hold to some to some plan or some goal that you have. And so I just kind of curious.

Abby Clapper (13:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Miller (13:22)
What's your take is on that? Because I'm sure you have clients that are that are working both the exercise angle and also trying to reduce their weight. They might, you know, need some additional help. Maybe they are type two diabetics or on the borderline. So I think I sent you some information ahead of time.

Abby Clapper (13:44)
Yeah, absolutely. So I I do find that the the GLP-1s, they do zap your energy. And I can tell you exactly why, because your body's used to running on a certain number of calories for your brain to function, your body to function, for you to feel like you're doing like you're having a normal day. So when you get on the GLP-1s, it's an appetite suppressant. So you end up eating less calories, which is good for your weight if you, you know, we've talked about this in the last episode.

If you fall within the correct BMI of needing, ⁓ needing that extra tool. you know, there are some people with with a lower BMI that are using it, and I don't know that that's exactly right. But if you do fall into the correct category, ⁓ insurance is gonna cover it, you know, it makes sense for you, ⁓ especially with that food noise and all that stuff. You'll see, you'll see a reduction in weight, but you'll probably also see a little bit of that energy zap because you just, your body just doesn't have as many calories to to work with.

⁓ that doesn't mean that, you know, the clients that I've worked with who who have been on GLP-1s, we've had to modify a little bit, especially at the beginning. It's it's that kind of like learning curve of how's your body reacting with it. and sometimes the workouts, you know, they they weren't what they were before starting the GLP-1s. And that's okay as long as you're still moving, because the important thing is we still we still have those workouts. We're still building muscle, maintaining your muscle.

While you're losing that weight, because they're you know, in the numbers, the studies that I've seen, if you're not strength training, ⁓ but you're on GLP-1s, you're losing a lot of muscle mass. And yeah, that's a part of the weight that you want to lose, but you'd rather it be fat than muscle mass. So that's where the importance of really the strength training comes up. But I I think that's probably why we see a little bit less as far as steps, you see more brain fog. Like you're just your body just doesn't have enough, enough to pull from.

Joe Miller (15:34)
Yeah, I didn't think about just the the the calorie model, but yeah,

⁓ that's probably the bigger driver, is just they just don't have the juice. ⁓ but I think that, you know, I I think it was on a Huberman podcast too, I think that came up that just that drive is is suppressed, that it GLP-1 has other impacts other than just.

Abby Clapper (15:43)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Miller (15:55)
Satiation, you know, cutting back on the satiation for food.

Abby Clapper (16:00)
Yeah, it very well might be. I think there's there's also a lot that we don't know yet about GLP-1s. So there could very well be, you know, an un something underlying that's, you know, taking that that drive. ⁓ I it has to do, I would assume, something physiologically that's that's reducing it. But I I don't know the exact thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a a byproduct.

Joe Miller (16:22)
Yeah, so ⁓ I I think I read that as you mentioned, strength training, also hydration and also protein intake are real important as well. And fibers. Okay.

Abby Clapper (16:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, and fiber. Fiber is another big one. The protein and

the fiber together. it's something actually that I've learned over the years of being a trainer is I was I was telling all my clients, you know, you need to make sure that you're getting your protein in ⁓ because that's what helps keep you feeling full. It's what helps you build muscle. ⁓ but you know, over the past couple of years I realized like, well, if you're gonna have that much protein, you also need fiber so that you can process it, your body can, you know, get it.

Get it through your body, get it where it needs to be. We can't also avoid the fiber too. So on GLP-1s, protein and fiber are two very important things, along with the hydration that you mentioned.

Joe Miller (17:05)
Point.

Yeah, fiber too, because you got to keep the bugs in your gut happy. Right. ⁓ yeah. And if you are doing a lot of protein, definitely need their cooperation and helping break down the proteins for sure. my goodness. So ⁓ let's see.

Abby Clapper (17:10)
Exactly. Yep.

For sure.

Joe Miller (17:25)
How about let's talk a little bit about this whole entrepreneurial shift you went into because you know went fr went from being the one thing nice about the corporate job, as I know I experienced and had benefit from for many years, was having, you know, the health plan and and it really is great. ⁓ being an entrepreneur like you are and working for yourself has wonderful ⁓ freedom to it. ⁓

But those early days can be a challenge sometimes. And ⁓ just wanted to talk about that transition. We talked a little bit about it, but I'm curious about how you did with the what those, what the different components of being successful are. You had the knowledge and and you know, you had the background and the education to do what you're doing. ⁓ but there's all this other stuff you have to do too, because when you're a a solo entrepreneur, you're wearing all the hats.

Abby Clapper (18:21)
Yeah.

Joe Miller (18:21)
You're

the CFO, you're you're the chief marketing officer, all those things. So share with us what that transition was like for you.

Abby Clapper (18:30)
Yeah, it's it's so so funny that you bring that up because it's I was talking to someone recently and I said, you know, I went to school for exercise science. I know the body really well, but I don't know sales and I don't know how to run a business. And, you know, that would have been really helpful if we had a class like that in college. because college was setting people like me up to go into physical therapy, into working in a gym. It didn't set us up for being our own bosses. So

You know, there's things that we learned in high school, you know, personal finance, things like that. But it would have been, it would have been nice hindsight 2020 to have a class on, you know, on how to be a business owner. So it's it's a really tough transition. ⁓ especially at the beginning, I was definitely more in a scarcity mindset and saying yes to everything that I could get my hands on. I was saying yes to to people who were.

many miles away from me and doing a very long drive, so because that was all that I had. ⁓ three years later, I think I'm coming from a more abundance mindset of, you know, even if the money isn't exactly what I want, I would still like my sanity and my mental health to be okay. So saying no to things that are are well outside of my my range of being willing to sit in Tampa traffic, which is, you know, horrible.

Joe Miller (19:47)
Yeah.

Abby Clapper (19:48)
Or, you know, just things that that I feel like just aren't in alignment. I'm not scared of of hopping on a consultation now and having the clients and having the person on the other end say, I don't know if this is a good fit because I want them to feel like it's a good fit. I don't want to force something. ⁓ you know, if a client leaves for whatever reason, I'm okay with it because the alignment wasn't there. So where I am now is a lot more comfortable.

My business has grown because I've worked with more people. There's more referrals than there were when I started. So ⁓ it was a but at the beginning it was very tough. It was it was the very like grind hustle mindset of just, yeah, doing everything that I could. But that's definitely changed now, which I'm happy about.

Joe Miller (20:30)
Usually when you launch something like that, you just have to have in the back of your mind, you need to expect that it'll take a couple of years before it starts to feel like it's comfortable. The first few years are like very scrappy and doing whatever you can just to to keep going. So

Abby Clapper (20:42)
Yeah.

Yeah. It still feels scrappy Joe. I'll tell you that. Like I'm still trying

to figure out like, you know, I finally I finally, thanks to my accountant, am moving over to QuickBooks instead of my ugly Excel spreadsheet where I'm tracking all my expenses. So she's happy about that. But it's all these little things that it's they all just add up and you're trying to figure out social media, trying to figure out SEO and marketing and like you said, we're wearing all the hats and it is tough.

Joe Miller (20:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right, exactly. But I think there's a another piece to this that I just wanted to tease out. First of all, I commend you for for making this this shift and for staying with it. ⁓ obviously it's it's connected with what you're very passionate about and ⁓ what you're gifted in, what you have. You have knowledge, but sometimes just having knowledge isn't enough. You you there has to be this intersection between your passion, your

Abby Clapper (21:32)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Miller (21:44)
your your knowledge, your your experience, and your I call it your gifting. You gotta be you gotta be wired the right way to be doing what you're doing. So again, I commend you for that. ⁓ but moving forward, ⁓ and in recent months you've been like podcasting like like you've been guesting quite a bit. You've been asked to be on. So the momentum people are finding you, which is great. But you have your own podcast too, right? You want to talk about that one?

Abby Clapper (22:09)
Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ and that that has transitioned actually. Cause I just hit my two year anniversary of my podcast is called Talk Your Abs Off, a fitness podcast where we talk about Well, I know, I know. All we do is talk on these podcasts and where are the abs, right? ⁓ so I so yeah, it's it's transitioned a bit. ⁓ when I first started the podcast, it was all about

Joe Miller (22:21)
I don't think it has not worked for me. I love the title. Yeah, yeah.

Abby Clapper (22:34)
helping people find the one or two sustainable things that they could add into their lives to help make it just a little bit healthier, whether it's eating different foods for a healthy, healthy gut, just like we talked about, or how to start running, how to find the right shoes, how to start a program like that. ⁓ And now it's shifted a little bit more into the the clientele that I work with, which are people who are neurodivergent. ⁓

with h who people who have hypermobility or and or have chronic conditions because I found through my work that those three things often intertwine. And we talked about this is a very, you know, underrepresented group of people in the fitness industry. And fitness doesn't necessarily cater well to them. So ⁓ that's kind of more what I'm focusing on. It's the conversations I enjoy. How are we managing chronic illness in a way that honors our bodies? How are we, you know, working

Around neurodivergence in a way that works with our brains so that we can continue to do the things that we love and still be healthy. So it still pairs a little bit with things that the everyday person can take away with them, but it also focuses in more on the clients that I work with and what I want them to take away.

Joe Miller (23:42)
So cool. So and like I said, you you've been getting around, so

Abby Clapper (23:49)
I've been trying. I've been working hard, Joe.

Joe Miller (23:50)
No, that

that's great. You've been guesting a lot. I've thought of it too. ⁓ you know, I think it's it's well, first of all, there's the whole fulfillment thing, you know, being on your own and having your own business, doing what you love to do. I mean, we don't talk about that enough. I think, you know, people tend to want to take the safe route. And sometimes they struggle with

Abby Clapper (24:00)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Miller (24:16)
The position or the job they're in because it's not quite right, or there's many different factors, but they feel they have to hang in there. And yes, that's the safest course of action. but ⁓ at least explore. ⁓

So before you made the shift into having your own business, did you network with other people who were doing it?

Abby Clapper (24:38)
So before I started my business, I never thought that I wanted to start my own business. I was actually adamantly against starting my own business because I loved what I was doing in corporate wellness. It was still in corporate, but I was doing what I loved. I had a steady paycheck. ⁓ and when I talk to people ⁓ who are trying to start as personal trainers to work for themselves, they say, All right, what do I have to do? How did you do it? I say, I'm not a very good example because

Joe Miller (24:48)
Right.

Abby Clapper (25:05)
When I left corporate wellness, I took I had clients already and I left and they followed me. They came with me. So I I didn't start from scratch, which a lot of times people have to do. So, you know, I never think that I'm a very good example for starting from scratch, but I also hadn't networked with anyone before starting my business. I kind of just said, All right, heck with it, let's just do it. But then I did join networking groups where I found other female entrepreneurs who ⁓

Joe Miller (25:12)
Take him with you.

Mark.

Abby Clapper (25:34)
who I could relate with and, you know, talk through the same struggles and that was very helpful.

Joe Miller (25:38)
Cool. That's cool. Are there things that you are incorporating into your exercise program, either equipment or new approaches that you're excited about? Now this is I'm throwing you a curveball.

Abby Clapper (25:55)
I I I'm here for the curveball. I honestly I give myself a little bit more grace than I used to because I tell my clients all day, every day, if you can't get to the gym, it's okay. We're gonna, you know, you're gonna be okay. Missing one day won't derail the whole train. ⁓ and you know, myself, if I missed a day, I'm like, crap, I'm off the you know, I'm off the rails. I gotta get back on. But realistically, finding something that works with your life. ⁓ you know, I've added running back in again. I was a runner.

Joe Miller (25:56)
⁓

Abby Clapper (26:24)
Took a nice little hiatus after my marathon because that was a lot of running and I needed a break. So I've started to add that back in for enjoyment. I pair my cardio, so running with watching a show that I want to watch so that I'm not sitting on the couch watching it. I have to actively be doing something. That's my motivation for doing my cardio. So I've added in some running, but also giving myself grace on the days when my body hurts, when, you know, my shoulder, last time we talked about my shoulder injury.

I'm still working on that. So there's still a lot of things that I can't do, but finding the things that I can do, which is what I preach all day to my clients.

Joe Miller (26:59)
That's cool. I want to swing back to something you said a few minutes ago and and the way I would word it would be.

Doing the small things that you know you can do right now. and it reminded me of a podcast I was watching. It was a Navy SEAL, Andy Stumpf,

he makes a decision to always take the harder path. if there's a choice between taking the elevator, take the stairs, right? And so usually he's he says these things compound. And so even though it may not seem like it's a huge thing, you know.

Taking the small incremental steps in the right direction, they compound and they actually help you both build momentum. We know that small habits stacking like that also reinforce and help you help motivate you as as well. ⁓ I just wanna know what you thought of that.

Abby Clapper (27:57)
Yeah, it's actually that's that's a very interesting thing. And for the people that I work with, I would disagree with what he's saying because mostly because sometimes those things seem too hard. Even for someone who's just starting out on their fitness journey, if something seems too hard, you're not gonna do it. And that's just the reality of it. So if if we can take

Joe Miller (28:06)
⁓ okay.

Abby Clapper (28:22)
An eas an easier, more consistent way to keep you continuing to do something instead of trying to do something hard and then thinking this is too hard and then doing nothing. I'd rather you doing something.

Joe Miller (28:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good, good clarification there because I think the implication might have sounded like doing something very hard. But going back to my own science roots, we talked about this last time being an analytical chemist to start with. There's a certain level of activation energy that's required for a reaction to go, but you want to keep that that level small enough so the reaction you need small activation.

Abby Clapper (29:03)
Yes.

Joe Miller (29:03)
And

so so what I'm doing now as an older guy, I'm I'm using a standing desk, right? So you know and honestly, it doesn't seem like much, but by the end of the day, if I'm you know, working here doing doing my business stuff, I put two or three hours in standing, I can feel it. You know, right. So that's a small thing. That's a small thing. ⁓

Abby Clapper (29:10)
Amazing. Love that.

Yeah, it makes a big difference.

Yeah. Well,

and I think too when when someone we we want to capitalize on someone's excitement to start something. So that can be maybe the bigger thing, the bigger reaction, let's say, of getting someone into fitness. So they're excited, they want to change their body, they want to change their health, they're excited, great. So for the first month or two, that's where we see a lot of progress, but then it starts to get boring and that's when it falls off. So that's where we take those smaller, sustainable things, those smaller reactions.

to keep them going instead of trying to make them do something even harder. So yeah, I think I think you you make a very good point of, you know, we still need that big reaction, that big thing at the beginning, but that's not gonna sustain us forever. So that's where I think the little choices like your standing desk or a walking pad can make a difference.

Joe Miller (30:17)
Well

You know, we haven't talked about this, but I think it's relevant. I mean, most of the work you're doing is individual, one-on-one, but sometimes people it may help to do things socially, you know. You know, spin spin classes used to be the big thing. I don't know if they still have them,

Abby Clapper (30:28)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

They they do have they still have spin classes. They're very fun now. They they turn off the lights. They've got bright neon lights. They've got loud music. It's a blast. but I actually do teach group classes as well. So I'm a group exercise instructor on top of everything else. And ⁓ on one of my podcast episodes, I just talked to someone about peop why people are are continuing to come to these classes and it's for the community, it's for the social aspect of it, along with feeling good, but they know they're not gonna do it on their own, but they wanna see their friends.

And they want to be told what to do. So a group class is a really great environment for that.

Joe Miller (31:06)
Yeah. So so you're doing you're doing that. ⁓ is that a class through your community platform or is it separate?

Abby Clapper (31:14)
No, those are separate. So I'm employed privately by by a company. And so I teach ⁓ for them exclusively. I mean, I'll teach for whoever wants me to teach. I work for a couple of different companies right now, but but yeah, it's you know, even what was that? I know. Listen, I still get my still get, you know, all around all the places, but but it's it's what I enjoy doing. It breaks up the day, my one on ones in my groups. It's a blast.

Joe Miller (31:21)
Yeah. Right.

You are scrappy. You are scrappy.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's cool. ⁓ I wanted to ask you, what do you recommend for people who are older like me? ⁓ getting really to be honest with you, I I lost a lot of weight years ago, probably 10 years ago, by doing intermittent fasting. I lost 50 pounds. And I've kept that off, believe it or not. I still do time-restricted eating,

Abby Clapper (31:46)
Yeah.

That's amazing.

Joe Miller (32:02)
I feel the muscle loss. And so, what would you recommend for older folks to get themselves back into shape? Walking, I don't know. But I think the muscle training, the strength training is the one that that I'm, you know, as I go back to the gym, I'm thinking, if I go back in there thinking about what I could lift 25 years ago, I'm gonna be going to the doctor after this.

Abby Clapper (32:13)
Yeah.

Right.

so okay, my biggest thing is strength training. That's that's what I do. It's my biggest ⁓ the biggest thing that I want people to know as they get older is you need to continue to strength train. which is different than working in your garden. It's different than taking a walk. All of those things are great. I think walking is a wonderful benefit for everyone. But strength training, especially when we talk about

muscle reduction as you get older, as well as osteoporosis and osteopenia, we want strong bones and we want strong muscles to support those bones so that, you know, if we fall, we can catch ourselves. If we fall, we don't break something. ⁓ So when going back into the gym, correct, you can't lift what you lifted 25 years ago yet. You know, you there are, I do see people online, you know, social media, you can see all kinds of things. I'll see people in their 80s who are still deadlifting or squatting.

Joe Miller (33:09)
yeah.

Abby Clapper (33:13)
But they didn't start there, right? They started lifting the fives and tens and taking it slow and listening to their body, most important thing. But it's also good to progress. You can't stay at those fives and tens forever. You want to continue to get stronger and you can still build muscle, making sure that you're eating enough, all the things. But making sure that we're incorporating the strength training is the most important thing that someone who's aging can do.

Joe Miller (33:37)
What do you think about creatine?

Abby Clapper (33:40)
I think it's beneficial for some people. ⁓ there's there's a lot of there's a lot of studies done. The only study that I've actually looked at is the one in regards to assisting with like depression. ⁓ it can, according to this study, reduce like depression symptoms if you take it consistently in small doses. ⁓ one of my clients had looked into it to see if it if it helps with ADHD focus, actually. So I think that creatine, it's very important with creatine.

That you are lifting weights, that you're exercising, and that you're drinking enough water. Because personal story, I took creatine a couple of times. And if you don't drink enough water, like your stomach hurts. It is not comfortable. So making sure that you're very hydrated. ⁓ I would say creatine is something that it's not the end all be all. You gotta start lifting the weights first. If you talk to your doctor and you find that creatine is a good addition to it, then more power to you, but it's not necessary for starting.

Joe Miller (34:39)
Yeah. I mean I would never have brought it up at some of my age in particular, big you know, what was it back in the late nineties or something where it was surging, mostly around bodybuilders, right? But I think there has been some studies talking about ⁓ creatine in the brain, helping brain fog, maybe helping memory and a lot of other other benefits as well. But so I just kinda curious to see what you said about that. Yeah.

Abby Clapper (34:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Food for thought, right? I would say do

your own research and talk to your doctor. Those are two very good places to start with creatine. Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Miller (35:09)
Yep. Absolutely. All right. Disclaimer. This is not medical advice. All right.

Let's see. What things do you think are important when it comes to fitness that aren't talked about often enough? I'm sure we've touched on some of them. Feel free to underscore if that makes sense.

Abby Clapper (35:32)
Some things in fitness that are often like neglected, not talked about. ⁓ that you don't need to go, you don't need to go hard every single time that you go to the gym. Like you might go to the gym and see the people who are, you know, bench pressing 200 pounds, squatting 400 pounds, doing all the things. ⁓ what you need to know is they're probably not doing that every day. In fact, they shouldn't be doing that every day.

There are periods of of rest that need to happen in order to still see growth. We call them deload weeks. So giving your body a chance to to decrease the loads that you're lifting and giving yourself a break. ⁓ I think a lot of times with fitness, it's people just always it's like it's like entrepreneurship. People think it's a grind and you always have to be go-go-going, lifting heavier, doing all the things.

When in reality the rest is just as important so that your body can recover and continue to grow in the ways that you want to see muscle growth, reducing stress levels, you know, all those things. So it's it's more than just going to the gym and doing, you know, an hour or two of really heavy lifting. So I think it's that's a really big thing, is we have a misconception of what fitness needs to look like. It doesn't need to be an hour or two in the gym, it can be twenty to thirty minutes.

Joe Miller (36:45)
Yeah, you know, that you made me think also, great points. You made me think too that when I was when I lost that weight taking that that intermittent fasting approach, I had to sort of reframe myself to think about the way I was going to eat for the rest of my life. Versus the whole diet was almost like a project kind of thing. Well, once I get there, then I'll be at that point forever, no matter what, right? Because I've hit that goal.

And we have so many things that are that way today. You know, I'm gonna go do this and then I'll have it. So maybe exercise, same thing. It's a lifestyle. And so there isn't as if you have that long range arc, that long range point of view, I and identity as I'm someone who takes care of my body through exercise, among other things, eating well. ⁓ if you have an off day, that's okay. You listen to your body, like you said, and you don't have all the shame because you didn't, you know.

Abby Clapper (37:23)
Absolutely.

Joe Miller (37:44)
Hit it hard that day because you know there'll be tomorrow or the next day.

Abby Clapper (37:46)
Exactly.

Yeah. But it's not letting it's not letting the okay, I missed one day turn into, all right, now I've missed two weeks. Right. So there's a there's a balance. What was that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So finding that balance for sure. And also, yeah, once because once people reach their goals, it's ⁓ I think it's fairly well known that it's easier when someone is first starting out to like lose all that weight. but then we get to the last like 10 to 20 pounds.

Joe Miller (37:56)
So yes I'm done. So yes I'm done.

Abby Clapper (38:18)
Where your body's really comfortable. And that's where it gets really hard. And where people start to see the scale, if you're watching the scale, you start to see it plateau and it gets really hard. And you have to change up how you're training because your body, it just needs something, a different kind of stimulus to really push through that last little bit, whether it's changing eating, lifting differently, doing more high intensity stuff, whatever that, whatever that is. So yeah, I think it's and then once you can maintain it.

You have to do a lot to maintain it, right? You have to keep up either the same eating or the same workouts and and it can be exhausting. It can be tough.

Joe Miller (38:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Well that's that's great. That's great. Well, it's been a pleasure having you back on. And this time we actually get to see you. So we had technical problems last time, but ⁓ I'm so glad you agreed to come back on. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's great. So listen everyone, ⁓ well, first of all.

Abby Clapper (39:01)
I know, this is lovely.

Yeah, it's a pleasure talking to you. This is always such a good conversation.

Joe Miller (39:16)
Abby, how how do people reach you? Maybe they wanna get a remote class or maybe they live in the Tampa Bay area and they wanna connect with you.

Abby Clapper (39:24)
Yeah, for sure. So all my social media, I'm Coach Abby Clapper on Instagram and Facebook. ⁓ and then my website is endorphin E N D O R F I N wellness dot com. and if you want to check out my podcast, talk your abs off, and that's where you can find me.

Joe Miller (39:42)
Okay, everybody, let's be healthy. Abby has inspired us. Thank you, Abby. Great having you back on.

Abby Clapper (39:48)
Thank you.